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When will these gun-tragedies end in the USA?


Forums Forums Politics and Social Issues When will these gun-tragedies end in the USA?

This topic contains 107 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  MikeYohe 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 108 total)
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  • #19822

    The tragedies come and are forgotten after a while; and, obviously, they keep repeating. Practically no one is safe in the USA, due to the easy availability of guns to people who should not have them. Isn’t the gun-crazy mindset the worst shame of the USA?
    I had a little conversation today with a pro-gun friend on FB. His argument was that using cars (carelessly or criminally) can kill people. Should the country take cars off the streets? I responded by saying that he had missed a very important point. Cars are needed for a living – for transportation to wherever people need to go in an advanced nation. There is no such need for guns. A civilized nation can certainly live without everyone tottering guns. In fact, the gun right law (2nd Amendment to the Constitution) in the USA was put in place when the USA was mostly wild, a jungle, an uncivilized nation.
    How would you address this menace in the USA? How would you console victim-families like the following?:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/victims-aunt-calls-action-not-prayers-shooting-225152005.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=fb

    #239572

    The tragedies come and are forgotten after a while; and, obviously, they keep repeating. Practically no one is safe in the USA, due to the easy availability of guns to people who should not have them. Isn’t the gun-crazy mindset the worst shame of the USA?
    I had a little conversation today with a pro-gun friend on FB. His argument was that using cars (carelessly or criminally) can kill people. Should the country take cars off the streets? I responded by saying that he had missed a very important point. Cars are needed for a living – for transportation to wherever people need to go in an advanced nation. There is no such need for guns. A civilized nation can certainly live without everyone tottering guns. In fact, the gun right law (2nd Amendment to the Constitution) in the USA was put in place when the USA was mostly wild, a jungle, an uncivilized nation.
    How would you address this menace in the USA? How would you console victim-families like the following?:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/victims-aunt-calls-action-not-prayers-shooting-225152005.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=fb

    I feel so sad and frustrated! My heart goes out to this girl and her friends.

    #239599

    LoisL
    Participant

    The tragedies come and are forgotten after a while; and, obviously, they keep repeating. Practically no one is safe in the USA, due to the easy availability of guns to people who should not have them. Isn’t the gun-crazy mindset the worst shame of the USA?
    I had a little conversation today with a pro-gun friend on FB. His argument was that using cars (carelessly or criminally) can kill people. Should the country take cars off the streets? I responded by saying that he had missed a very important point. Cars are needed for a living – for transportation to wherever people need to go in an advanced nation. There is no such need for guns. A civilized nation can certainly live without everyone tottering guns. In fact, the gun right law (2nd Amendment to the Constitution) in the USA was put in place when the USA was mostly wild, a jungle, an uncivilized nation.
    How would you address this menace in the USA? How would you console victim-families like the following?:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/victims-aunt-calls-action-not-prayers-shooting-225152005.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=fb

    There is no consolation for the families, but what I would do is ban all guns.
    But as long as we have right wing zealots in the country, we will have more such tragedies. They will never agree to any kind of gun control that is effective. They might agree to window dressing,as long as it doesn’t interfere with the availability of guns, any kind of guns, to anyone who wants them.

    #239627

    Rhea70
    Member

    I worry that gun violence will never stop. But to be honest people having guns does not really concern me too much. I’m more worried that the fabric of our society is breaking down and all manner of inequalities are becoming worse. The Christians blame a lack of christian values; as they do with everything else including their packages being late, but I think its a very complicated problem.
    Mainstream liberals are missing the point. Its not because of firearms, its due to a breakdown in the stability of our society. More and more people are falling though the cracks and even if you decide to repeal the second amendment this situation will only get worse. Although less people would likely get shot up on a daily basis.

    #239635

    CuthbertJ
    Participant

    I worry that gun violence will never stop. But to be honest people having guns does not really concern me too much. I’m more worried that the fabric of our society is breaking down and all manner of inequalities are becoming worse. The Christians blame a lack of christian values; as they do with everything else including their packages being late, but I think its a very complicated problem.
    Mainstream liberals are missing the point. Its not because of firearms, its due to a breakdown in the stability of our society. More and more people are falling though the cracks and even if you decide to repeal the second amendment this situation will only get worse. Although less people would likely get shot up on a daily basis.

    That’s a good point. It’s not necessarily because of guns, but having none of them would still help greatly. The underlying problem I believe is twofold. One, the disease of capitalism. Gun violence, and really that falling through the cracks you mention, are just a couple sysmptoms. The other is that we’re seeing right before our eyes just how much there are two predominant world views in the US (and elsewhere of course). Liberal and Conservative. It just so happens currently Repubs are conservative, but used to be Dems. So it’s not necessarily a political distinction. And the conservative view is losing, they know it, and they’re fighting back hard. They will literally lie, steal, kill, whatever it takes to hold on. The only silver lining to them taking hold of the entire gov and having a dunce like Drumpf in the WH is that it really exposes them and their malignant worldview for all to see.

    #239639

    I worry that gun violence will never stop. But to be honest people having guns does not really concern me too much. I’m more worried that the fabric of our society is breaking down and all manner of inequalities are becoming worse. The Christians blame a lack of christian values; as they do with everything else including their packages being late, but I think its a very complicated problem.
    Mainstream liberals are missing the point. Its not because of firearms, its due to a breakdown in the stability of our society. More and more people are falling though the cracks and even if you decide to repeal the second amendment this situation will only get worse. Although less people would likely get shot up on a daily basis.

    The USA is not the only country with inequality between people, financially or otherwise. There are many countries in the world where there are greater inequalities.
    The USA is also not the only country that has been rejecting religious nonsense. There are many countries in the world where people are more rational (skeptics/atheists/agnostics) than in the USA.
    However, the USA is by far the champion of gun-homicide in the world.
    As for the ‘mainstream liberals’ of the USA, I think most of them are also seriously stupid when it comes to the 2nd Amendment; although they seem to be better than the ‘conservatives’ in terms of seeking some common sense gun-control. Citizens needing guns to protect themselves cannot be a law in a civilized nation. In a civilized nation, good laws and law enforcements keep crime level low and ordinary citizens protected against crimes, including murder. In fact, it is utterly foolish to think that civilians can protect themselves by owning guns. The criminal who wants to kill has his/her finger at the trigger; and a citizen living a life is never as ready as the criminal to shoot back.

    #239641

    DougC.V2
    Blocked

    I worry that gun violence will never stop. But to be honest people having guns does not really concern me too much. I’m more worried that the fabric of our society is breaking down and all manner of inequalities are becoming worse. The Christians blame a lack of christian values; as they do with everything else including their packages being late, but I think its a very complicated problem.
    Mainstream liberals are missing the point. Its not because of firearms, its due to a breakdown in the stability of our society. More and more people are falling though the cracks and even if you decide to repeal the second amendment this situation will only get worse. Although less people would likely get shot up on a daily basis.

    The USA is not the only country with inequality between people, financially or otherwise. There are many countries in the world where there are greater inequalities.
    The USA is also not the only country that has been rejecting religious nonsense. There are many countries in the world where people are more rational (skeptics/atheists/agnostics) than in the USA.
    However, the USA is by far the champion of gun-homicide in the world.
    As for the ‘mainstream liberals’ of the USA, I think most of them are also seriously stupid when it comes to the 2nd Amendment; although they seem to be better than the ‘conservatives’ in terms of seeking some common sense gun-control. Citizens needing guns to protect themselves cannot be a law in a civilized nation. In a civilized nation, good laws and law enforcements keep crime level low and ordinary citizens protected against crimes, including murder. In fact, it is utterly foolish to think that civilians can protect themselves by owning guns. The criminal who wants to kill has his/her finger at the trigger; and a citizen living a life is never as ready as the criminal to shoot back.
    There’s a systemic stupidity in America when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, it was never intended to remove all controls on gun ownership and turn everyone in the country into a potential vigilante/murderer.
    It says right in the 2nd Amendment that firearms were to be controlled within a regulate militia system which was required at the time when the US could not afford a large standing army to protect itself from OUTSIDE threats.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    But like everything in the US it is a rigged system where a few people get almost all the wealth and all the rights and everyone who can’t afford to pay lobbyists millions of dollars is screwed.
    The NRA under Wayne Lapierre isn’t working in the interests of Americans, he’s a paid lobbyist for the gun industry.
    https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/danbigman/2012/12/21/what-the-nras-wayne-lapierre-gets-paid-to-defend-guns/&refURL=https://www.google.ca/&referrer=https://www.google.ca/

    If you’re a transparency fan like me, you appreciate knowing what kind of skin public people have in the game during episodes like this. So what did the NRA pay Lapierre to say that the best way to stop school shootings is to have the government put every mentally ill person in the nation on a watch list and arm school personnel to defend schools like banks?
    Just under a million bucks.

    The gun industry in America makes $1.5 billion a year selling weapons to civilians there that in tens of thousands of cases are then used to kill those Americans.
    If there were only a fraction of the firearms there would only be a fraction of the shootings and mass murders at places likes schools would be much less common.
    The fucking cowards who go into a school – or any place to kill unarmed civilians – would be much less likely if they were forced to use a knife or a club. They’d know that they would likely be overpowered and quite possibly beaten to death by those they are trying to dominate through murder.
    In the end this is all about power, about loser freaks who think the only way they can have power in America is to buy guns then go out and shoot a bunch of people.
    Or the assholes in the gun industry that think the only thing that makes then powerful is the huge amount of money they make selling ever more weapons to a civilian population that is already armed to the teeth.

    #239642

    Lausten
    Participant

    I worry that gun violence will never stop. But to be honest people having guns does not really concern me too much. I’m more worried that the fabric of our society is breaking down and all manner of inequalities are becoming worse. The Christians blame a lack of christian values; as they do with everything else including their packages being late, but I think its a very complicated problem.
    Mainstream liberals are missing the point. Its not because of firearms, its due to a breakdown in the stability of our society. More and more people are falling though the cracks and even if you decide to repeal the second amendment this situation will only get worse. Although less people would likely get shot up on a daily basis.

    The USA is not the only country with inequality between people, financially or otherwise. There are many countries in the world where there are greater inequalities.
    The USA is also not the only country that has been rejecting religious nonsense. There are many countries in the world where people are more rational (skeptics/atheists/agnostics) than in the USA.
    However, the USA is by far the champion of gun-homicide in the world.
    As for the ‘mainstream liberals’ of the USA, I think most of them are also seriously stupid when it comes to the 2nd Amendment; although they seem to be better than the ‘conservatives’ in terms of seeking some common sense gun-control. Citizens needing guns to protect themselves cannot be a law in a civilized nation. In a civilized nation, good laws and law enforcements keep crime level low and ordinary citizens protected against crimes, including murder. In fact, it is utterly foolish to think that civilians can protect themselves by owning guns. The criminal who wants to kill has his/her finger at the trigger; and a citizen living a life is never as ready as the criminal to shoot back.
    Pretty rare when I agree with Suk. I’ve been amazed how many people I’ve talked to this week who are defending guns. All stupid arguments like not blaming the car when there is a drunk driving accident. I pointed out that we don’t arrest the car. That at least got a smile. Then of course there is “Chicago”, no data given, just “Chicago”. And I was told that the ban on large magazine clips “didn’t even slow them down”. This turned out to be inaccurate.

    Mass shootings in the US are on the rise. What makes American men so dangerous?

    #239643

    Rhea70
    Member

    I mean if you want a gun that’s fine I think. I just shake my head at how it seems some people are so up in arms, (pardon the pun), about Gun Rights rather then the dozens of other major problems that are actually weakening and harming the country. Or how people threaten to rebel against the government if they strengthen firearms regulation. It’s totally brain dead insanity. It’s official, firearms are a pseudo-religion in the United States.

    #239644

    What a nutty country! Of course, Trump is not the only nut; he is just the nut-in-chief.
    Trump endorses guns for teachers to stop shootings
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43149694

    #239647

    DougC.V2
    Blocked

    I mean if you want a gun that’s fine I think. I just shake my head at how it seems some people are so up in arms, (pardon the pun), about Gun Rights rather then the dozens of other major problems that are actually weakening and harming the country. Or how people threaten to rebel against the government if they strengthen firearms regulation. It’s totally brain dead insanity. It’s official, firearms are a pseudo-religion in the United States.


    So that you don’t get that millions of Americans are dead set against being slaughtered by a tiny fraction of the population?
    Other than unmitigated climate change there are few issues more deadly than unregulated firearms in America and their use to kill thousands of Americans a year.
    It is in effect a form of civil war as anyone with two brain cells to rub together could tell from the above clip where one man with guns he bought legally killed 59 and wounded 850 real people in less than 10 minutes. And terrorized the rest of the nation.
    I’m pretty sure a de facto civil war in the US that has been raging for decades and has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives is a top priority for any sane person.

    #239648

    DougC.V2
    Blocked

    What a nutty country! Of course, Trump is not the only nut; he is just the nut-in-chief.
    Trump endorses guns for teachers to stop shootings
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43149694

    Only parts of it are nuts, millions of people have obviously had enough and students are starting to organize.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html

    From Arizona to Washington, students walked out of schools in support of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School students a week after their classmates were silenced by gunfire.
    And in Tallahassee, Stoneman Douglas students who survived the Parkland shooting massacre chanted louder than ever: “Vote them out!”
    Their words echoed through the hallways of the state Capitol, where they demanded a ban on weapons like the one used to kill their friends and teachers.

    If the pathetic losers in Congress that have allowed this insanity to go on for decades are voted back in this November then I think it is fair to claim the US is a batshit crazy nation.

    #239650

    What a nutty country! Of course, Trump is not the only nut; he is just the nut-in-chief.
    Trump endorses guns for teachers to stop shootings
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43149694

    Only parts of it are nuts, millions of people have obviously had enough and students are starting to organize.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html

    From Arizona to Washington, students walked out of schools in support of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School students a week after their classmates were silenced by gunfire.
    And in Tallahassee, Stoneman Douglas students who survived the Parkland shooting massacre chanted louder than ever: “Vote them out!”
    Their words echoed through the hallways of the state Capitol, where they demanded a ban on weapons like the one used to kill their friends and teachers.

    If the pathetic losers in Congress that have allowed this insanity to go on for decades are voted back in this November then I think it is fair to claim the US is a batshit crazy nation.
    I was watching a CNN town-hall last night, where many of the Parkland shooting survivor students talked to leasers, including two US senators. In addition to being sad and mad about what happened to their friends and what they had to go through, I liked what they said in that gathering. However, a few of them made me feel frustrated when they said ‘we do not want to take away anyone’s 2nd Amendment right to bear arms’ – my though was that they were also product of the gun-right mentality of the USA.
    I thought Newt Gingrich was an educator turned politician, who one time held the position of the Speaker of the US House of Representatives. However, under his intellectual posture, he is also a gun nut, proposing arming school teachers to protect students. What a shame!

    #239651

    Offler
    Participant

    I wanted to avoid discussion about guns in USA, but lets add some insight.
    If you want to own a gun in Slovakia you have to:
    a) Learn current legal notice and pass written test regarding it
    It has force as a law, and size as a normal book.
    b) Pass background check
    c) Pass psychotests.
    d) Pass a gun handling exam
    Each gun should be registered, and written down into “gun passport”.
    Guns have to be stored in a safe. (not just locked case).
    Also its easier to get a handgun than a rifle – as handguns are less accurate and have less firepower.
    Any sort of proposal to arm teachers is complete nonsense.

    #239653

    Lausten
    Participant

    I wanted to avoid discussion about guns in USA, but lets add some insight.

    Hard to avoid when kids are shooting kids. A very sensible family member posted something about his 2nd amendment rights. It was also sensible, but I asked if he thought his rights were somehow being threatened. He said something like, I just want the facts to get out there. I responded with a list of possible sensible gun laws, like being 21 to own a gun. A couple other people who I don’t know agreed on a couple of the points, like background checks, but then returned to memes about “all Democratic cities with gun restrictions have the highest murder rates” and “the NRA supports bump stock legislation”. I could go on, but you’ve all seen it.
    The problem, and I know everything, so I know what the problem is, is that liberal thinking is defined as thinking reason and discourse solves problems. It doesn’t. It’s a way to arrive at possible solutions, but once you have them, it becomes a political problem. People are free to be stupid, that’s a liberal value. But liberals are uncomfortable talking about ways to convince stupid people to not hurt others with their stupid ideas and actions. We have to get over that.
    Edit: He actually said this,

    People like you need to get their heads on their shoulders and realize what the real issues are and stop blaming objects. Look at Oklahoma City Bombing not a bomb issue but a mental person issue. But I am sure you will just say “why am I talking to you” “I need sources for what I can see for myself if I opened my eyes” “I cant find what you are talking about”

    He is mocking me because I asked for sources for his claims.

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