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Antibiotics – Combining Pharma with Natural Substances?


Forums Forums Alternative Medicine Antibiotics – Combining Pharma with Natural Substances?

This topic contains 14 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Patrick D 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • #299897

    Jeff C
    Participant

    Wondering if naturopathic antibiotics (such as Sarsaparilla [Smilex Medica], Burdock [Arctium lappa], etc) can enhance the effectiveness of pharmaceutical antibiotics (such as tetracyclines) or do they have the potential to interfere with them?

    #299901

    3point14rat
    Participant

    “Naturopathic” has no meaning. It doesn’t distinguish anything from anything else in a systematic way, so there’s no way of stating anything definitive about things labeled ‘naturopathic’.

    All naturopathic substances are things that some people have simply decided are naturopathic- no research or rationale required. This means that everything can potentially be naturopathic. Because ‘everything’ covers a fairly broad spectrum of substances, those who claim to be naturopaths will never make a statement on this issue.

    You’ll need to look at the naturally occurring molecules in each naturopathic item and see if any will have an interaction with the pharmaceuticals. There’s no other way of knowing.

    #299902

    Jeff C
    Participant

    Your statement is basic common sense.  In my original post I named two substances for exactly the purpose of someone being able to comment about either of those two.  My guess is no research has been done to date to confirm with certainty any interactions.  I was hoping though there may be someone with anecdotal evidence obtained through some historical resorts in actually treating patients in this way.  As scientific results would of course be preferable, I am trying to collect all types of information on the subject.

    #299904

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Sorry. Your post said “such as”, so I assumed you were looking for a general answer.

    Personally, I’d take the safe route and ignore the naturopathic stuff in case there is some sort of negative interaction. They have little to no positive affects anyways, so why chance it?

    #299910

    Jeff C
    Participant

    That’s one way of looking at it.  I think it really depends on the specifics of the condition be treated probably.  But… I am starting to get somewhere with some more pertinent info.  This info, although of course could not be considered conclusive as far as effects on human beings, logically seems to indicate it is more likely the combination would more likely ‘help’ rather than ‘hurt’ the effectiveness of the antibiotic.

    https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/chem.2017.15.issue-1/chem-2017-0012/chem-2017-0012.pdf

     

    #299912

    LoisL
    Participant

    Alternative “medicine” is not medicine. It’s quackery.

    #299914

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Your link says some substance in a naturally occurring plant can have an effect on bacterial growth. That’s how many medicines are discovered. After much testing, they are used by the medical profession.

    Naturopaths bypass the “testing” phase (or weaken it into insignificance).

    Plus, inhibiting growth in a petri dish is not the same as stopping it in your body, so one laboratory result does not prove anything in a medical setting.

     

    #299918

    TimB
    Participant

    Pennicillin was discovered, accidentally, 90 yrs ago. It was a mold.  If you had a staph infection 90 yrs ago, that would have been a handy mold to have around.

    Since then, a lot of hard science has been conducted to discover many many antibiotics.  Some antibiotics work against some bacteria.  A lot of research has been done to enlighten doctors as to which antibiotics work against which bacteria. Also there are bacteria that are good for us, that we might not want to kill off, or at least to know that if we do, we should replace them.

    So you need to know which antibiotic, whether “natural” or pharmaceutical, is working against what bacteria.  Also, I would think you would want to be cognizant of the potential undesirable side effects of any given antibiotic or combination of antibiotics (beyond the unwanted effect of killing off good bacteria).

    #299972

    Patrick D
    Participant

    Tim, I’ve read over the years, several times, that bread mould was used to treat infections in several cultures, including Egyptian. I pretty much dismissed it, because  penicillin mould will not grow on  just any kind of bread.

    Have you ever heard of such practices?  How credible do you think such claims are?  Don’t remember seeing any evidence.

    #299981

    TimB
    Participant

    I read a series of fiction (Outlander) about a WWII nurse who was unexpectedly sent back in time thru standing stones to the 18th century .  During her adventures, she sometimes used her medical knowledge and at one point tried to create cultures of pennicillin, but I don’t remember what she used to grow the mold. I thought I had heard it was originally found on orange peels, but I don’t think that is what she used.   I imagine a quick web search will tell u.

    #300196

    Patrick D
    Participant

    @timb

    Yeah, I’ve read “Outlander’ and a couple of others by Gabaldon.. I kind of remember her experiments trying to create penicillin. She tried with bread, but soon realised that not just any bread would do, so she tried as many types of bread as she could find.  I don’t remember if she succeeded.

    There is also a fascinating bit where she surgically repairs a man’s hernia.  He lived, I guess mainly because of her knowledge of germ theory, and his age and strength

    #300249

    TimB
    Participant

    Yeah she made and used penicillin, tho she was pretty iffy re: whether it she could dose it correctly.  She wound up using it anyway, since her patient was going to die otherwise.

    #300644

    Patrick D
    Participant

    Just  re reading this thread.

    I take a raft of mainstream drugs. Had a bit of a look at medicines prescribed by herbalists. There are some major problems;   Herbs tend to have an active ingredient, which is more effective than taking nothing. Two come to mind;  willow bark has been taken for perhaps millennia for pain. Foxglove contains digitalis, which is used in treating some heart complaints. BUT, as I understand , it is hard to guarantee the purity and strength of the active  ingredient in a herb. Mainstream medicine  has a guaranteed purity and strength.

    Some ‘natural’  drugs  can be dangerous  if taken with some standard medications ; EG  St John’s Wort is used to treat mild depression. My physician advised me that it is unsafe to take with mainstream anti depressants. Another  to take with care  is “valerian” (unrelated to Valium)

    “Valerian is “Generally Recognized as Safe” (GRAS) by the United States Food and Drug Administration. However, it is advisable to use valerian in moderation; do not combine it with any other prescribed medication. Do not take valerian if you are pregnant, nursing, whilst operating heavy machinery or driving; reduce your use of valerian gradually to avoid any unwanted side effects (although there is no recorded evidence of valerian dependency or adverse withdrawal symptoms).”

    Valerian And Valium

     

    My approach to medication has been the same for ‘a long time’; Imo, alternative medicines which work are called ‘medicine’ . I will sometimes take complimentary substances, with the knowledge and approval pf my physician; Eg vitamins, fish oil.

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Patrick D.
    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Patrick D.
    #300659

    TimB
    Participant

    Since even pot seemed to have some toxicity for you, as a young man, it would seem prudent to be very cautious re: using any medicinal herbs.

    #300666

    Patrick D
    Participant

    “Since even pot seemed to have some toxicity for you, as a young man, it would seem prudent to be very cautious re: using any medicinal herbs.”

    Indeed.

    These days I try to use only drugs prescribed by my doctor.  A packet or Panadol lasts me a year, which is when I usually replace it.

    I saw a friend who believed in alternative medicine die from leukemia about 2 years ago. It took 8 days from diagnosis until he died. He had been complaining about being tired all the time for some months. In retrospect, an obvious symptom. At the time, too vague. I did nag him to go to a doctor.  He was 70, a wiry ,fit little guy, looked  like a geriatric jockey..

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