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Battle of Belleau Woods WWI


Forums Forums Politics and Social Issues Battle of Belleau Woods WWI

Viewing 13 posts - 31 through 43 (of 43 total)
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  • #334329
    @sree
    Participant

    Anyway, it never crossed my mind that he was a “sucker” or a “loser” because of his military service.

    Why would you even think that? How could anybody possibly think that? It’s quite wicked to accuse anyone of thinking that.

    #334358
    @timb
    Participant

    Why would you even think that? How could anybody possibly think that?

    Yes why WOULD the t rump think and say that our veterans who died or were captured or wounded are losers or suckers?  How COULD the t rump possibly think that?

    He said it. You can LIE and DENY.  But he said it.

    #334371

    Haha, if insulting military leaders demonstrates contempt for the military then all military personnel must be guilty as hell!

    By their Commander in Chief – what’s that algorithm that allows you to defend t rump’s glaring contempt for our military not to mention his outrageous and oh so public crush on dictators?

    It’s one thing for the contempt coming from that drunk sitting next to you at your favor bar, but the Nations f’n Commander in Chief???   Have you no perspective?

     

    Oh and,

    You’re still wrong.

     

    #334393
    @sree
    Participant

    He said it. You can LIE and DENY.  But he said it.

    We live in the USA. I think you need to cite your sources and provide evidence. Many women had been stoned to death in Afghanistan because some guy kept saying that she did it. These days I just can’t tell if we are living in Kabul.

    #334402
    @timb
    Participant

     I think you need to cite your sources and provide evidence.

    Of course.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-insults-american-veterans-families-2019-10

    That is an article from almost a year ago.  In it you can find 16 veterans and/or their families that the t rump disparaged.  You know, if you will admit it, that this shows his propensity for belittling veterans, if it suits his emotional whims of any given moment.

    You know that he said of McCain, “I like people who weren’t captured.”  (McCain who was injured when captured and never fully recovered from the injury, due to his treatment as a POW.  McCain who the Viet Kong would have released due to who McCain’s father was.  But McCain refused to be released and leave behind his fellow POW’s.

    You should know that, like you, the t rump is at heart a troll, who enjoys bad mouthing anyone or anything that strikes him as being against his own feelings of any given moment.  It is PERFECTLY consistent with the anonymous but verified statements in the Atlantic article being true.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

    The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.

    When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

    Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day.

    In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

    On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II.

    A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly (his sec of Homeland Security at the time) in paying respects at his (John”s) son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”

    “He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”

     

    #334410
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    Haha, if insulting military leaders demonstrates contempt for the military then all military personnel must be guilty as hell! — oneguy

    No comparison. He’s the commander in chief. If he has a problem with his generals he should talk to them. enlisted people are not consulted on leadership matters.

    #334411
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    I think you need to cite your sources and provide evidence. — Sree

    One of the reasons I let Sree stay is he represents the people that America will need to deal with for another 20 years at least, even if Democrats hold every branch between now and then and even start winning Southern states. When sources are displayed everywhere constantly and they can still be denied, reality and facts are no longer shaping the narrative. I can easily get someone to agree that slavery was horrible in the US, that it did not instantly end in 1865, that oppression continued in full force until 1964, and more covertly up to now. And, they still will say that any given individual can overcome all of that by simple force of will, by simply walking down the road a few miles and finding a new life. This is the mentality of 1950’s white men who rode the rails and took day jobs and choose to live poor until the day they decided to do more. That was never an option for a dark skinned person or a woman. These facts don’t matter to people like Sree, and there are much more friendly people than him that also think like this, that whatever the rich white man says, must be true, because riches prove you are better and most rich people are white. Checkmate. Actually, flipping the board over, but that’s checkmate these days.

    #334428
    @thatoneguy
    Participant

    No comparison. He’s the commander in chief. If he has a problem with his generals he should talk to them. enlisted people are not consulted on leadership matters.

    Technically true but it doesn’t change the fact that insulting military leadership is a lame indicator of contempt for the military.

    #334429
    @sree
    Participant

    Technically true but it doesn’t change the fact that insulting military leadership is a lame indicator of contempt for the military.

    True. Military leadership has been known to mount coups. Trump came into the presidency with full faith and confidence in his generals, career soldiers not different from career politicians in the mammoth bureaucratic structures of the US Government. Presidents come and go. Deadwoods stay forever. They will endure Trump for four more years and resume their endless wars.

    #334459
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    Instead of trying to find the worst part of Sree’s post and responding, I’ll just note that there is something wrong with every sentence in it. Some of them horribly, horribly wrong.

    #334461

    Thoughtless emotional adoration has a way of blinding the likes of sree.

    Good faith – sree you’ve written enough around here to show us that you don’t have a clue what “good faith” actually means.

     

    Trump Has Mocked the U.S. Military His Whole Life
    Egged on by his father, the U.S. president began expressing contempt for Americans who fight in wars as far back as high school, his classmates say.
    BY MICHAEL HIRSH
    | SEPTEMBER 8, 2020

    Trump Has Mocked the U.S. Military His Whole Life

     

    Perhaps no one was less surprised last week when it was reported that U.S. President Donald Trump had called American war dead “losers” and “suckers” than his former high school classmate George M. White.

    The 74-year-old retired Army veteran was Trump’s superior—the first captain, or highest-ranking cadet—in Trump’s 1964 graduating class at the New York Military Academy. White said he witnessed up close Trump’s contempt for military service, discipline, and tradition, as well his ungoverned sense of entitlement, all helped along by his father Fred Trump’s generous donations to the school.

    “No, those remarks absolutely didn’t surprise me. In my dealings with him he was a heartless, obnoxious son of a bitch,” White told me in an interview over the weekend.

    According to White and other former classmates at the academy, Trump’s five years there, coupled with the disregard for U.S. military traditions he learned at his father’s knee, helps explain a great deal of the president’s reported contempt for those who fought, died, or were wounded in America’s wars, as well as his skeptical view of the need for the United States to fight in places like Vietnam and Iraq.

    #334464

    Trump’s Contempt for the Military Is Overwhelming and Obvious
    His denials of the Atlantic’s reporting are falling apart.
    By WILLIAM SALETAN

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/trump-lying-military-contempt.html

    … Trump and Vice President Mike Pence have been asked repeatedly whether Kelly, the witness at the center of these stories, backs up Trump’s denials. On Friday, CNBC’s Kayla Tausche asked Pence about the cemetery visit: “There were two generals who were reported to have been present, Gen. Dunford and Gen. Kelly. Would you support their speaking out, to set the record straight?” Pence ducked the question. “I wasn’t in Paris, but it never happened,” he insisted. When Tausche asked Pence whether he was confident that Kelly and Dunford would agree, he ducked again. On Monday, reporters pressed Trump twice as to whether he had “asked John Kelly to refute” the Atlantic article. Trump tried to ignore the question and then said he hadn’t. In an ABC News interview on Tuesday, Trump’s former press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders begged off when she was asked to explain Kelly’s silence. …

    … Trump has a long and well-documented history of contempt for military service. There’s audio of him congratulating a man for faking a disability, as Trump did, to escape the Vietnam draft. There’s video of him challenging the heroism of being a POW in 1999, as well as in 2015. Videos, transcripts, witness testimony, and his own tweets show him ridiculing American generals in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020. His own family members say he criticized his brother for going into the military and threatened to disown his son if he enlisted.

    Exposing Trump’s lies and contempt won’t stop loyalists from defending him. On Sunday, when CNN’s Dana Bash pointed out that he had “denigrated prisoners of war” in his 2015 dig at captured service members, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Robert Wilkie shrugged off Trump’s words. “I judge a man by his actions,” said Wilkie. When Bash asked about Trump’s attack on Kelly’s temperament and performance, Wilkie refused to disagree. “I’m not going to get into a ‘he said, she said’ with the president and the former chief of staff,” he replied.

    There’s nothing Trump’s cronies won’t excuse. …

    You know sree, guy, just saying your hero is a contemptible malicious destructive murderous fraud . . . . . . .  But you bow down to your magi – why, why, oh why???

    #334492
    @timb
    Participant

    …  insulting military leadership is a lame indicator of contempt for the military.

    oneguy, you are always looking for a colonel of truth that MIGHT (but doesn’t really) support your wrongheaded conclusions.

    Woodward reports on Trump’s tensions with military leaders, writing a Mattis aide heard Trump say in a meeting, “my f—ing generals are a bunch of pussies” because they cared more about alliances than trade deals. Mattis asked the aide to document the comment in an email.

    Let us parse those bold and italicized words.

    The t rump views the generals as HIS.

    He calls them “fucking” generals.  (Generally the adjective “fucking” could be construed as an indicator of contempt.

    In the same sentence he calls “his” generals a bunch of “pussies”.  This also might be construed as him having some contempt for them.

    But the rest of the sentence betrays his real intent.  He said “because they cared more about alliances than trade deals.”  Hence his contempt seems to be actually aimed at the generals NOT being willing to do t rump’s every whim, specifically by using their military power to support him in any way that occurs to him, in order to bully his way thru trade deals.

    The t rump wanted the military to be his goons in giving countries trade offers “that they couldn’t refuse”.  His “contempt” for his generals, I contend, was for their unwillingness to act as mob goons to enforce his mafia style administration.  The trump will try anything to get his way.  And if he fails at first, he never really stops trying.  He eventually takes over the depts and institutions of govt, this way. Many are now his direct puppets.

    The military is just another mark that he intends to eventually be able to bend to his will, regardless of the legality of what he wants them to do.

     

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