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Can Nature and God be the same thing?


Forums Forums Humanism Can Nature and God be the same thing?

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 219 total)
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  • #316559
    @sree
    Participant

    My mind is ever changing, Lausten, like the flowing waters of a stream. I hold on to nothing.

    #316562
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    I’ll take that as a “yes”

    #316563
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    #316596
    @sree
    Participant

    Citizen said: “As a matter of fact, nature and god are two very different things. The one is Physical Reality, the other is a product of the Human Mindscape.

    Any thoughts Sree?”

    Of course, I have but they may not fit into your conceptual paradigm. To you, Nature is physical reality, that world of flora and fauna on a landscape within the dimensions of mass, time and space.  God, on the other hand, is a supernatural diety of one kind or another. Now, let see if I can get us “out of the box” into my paradigm.

    To me, reality is inherently perceptual in nature because the field of consciousness, prior to cognition, has no material qualities.  At the onset of cognition, everything takes on a form, color and texture informed by knowledge to generate an illusion of Nature. Is this supernatural or what? To me, that is God in action.

     

    #316600
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    “The future is rooted in subjective external reality”

    http://wisdomofchopra.com/

     

    #316650

    To me, reality is inherently perceptual in nature because the field of consciousness, prior to cognition, has no material qualities.  At the onset of cognition, everything takes on a form, color and texture informed by knowledge to generate an illusion of Nature. Is this supernatural or what? To me, that is God in action.

    To me that sounds like our Human Mindscape in action.

    To me nature is the product of a material evolutionary process.  It couldn’t care less about human consciousness or cognitive ability.

     

    Of course if  you want to get poetic or religious, we could see ourselves as God’s   OH, wait a minute.  I just remembered something from long ago:

    Humanity is the most exquisite example of God’s need to understand itself.  (Got a story to go with it but will spare you all)

    But that’s all woo, guess that’s where chopra comes in.

    #317052

    Just realized I left out part of that quote,

    Humanity is the most exquisite example of God’s need, and desire, to understand itself.

    Just realized I left out part of that quote.  To be sure this is woo and not science, so no spit balls.   ;- )

    #317115
    @timb
    Participant

    Sree said, “To me, reality is inherently perceptual in nature because the field of consciousness, prior to cognition, has no material qualities. At the onset of cognition, everything takes on a form, color and texture informed by knowledge to generate an illusion of Nature. Is this supernatural or what? To me, that is God in action.”

    TimB replies:  In my paradigm, perceptions are also behaviors. When you say “Cognitions” this encompasses a bunch of different cognitive behaviors.  So it is impossible to understand what you mean by “prior to cognition”.  But, there cannot be consciousness without cognitions, and yes, there cannot be cognitions without perceptual abilities. I go further and suggest that some consciousness behaviors (e.g. remembering memories behavior) cannot develop well without the concurrent development of advanced verbal behavior).

    NONE OF THIS is supernatural.

    #317128
    @sree
    Participant

    Tim: “NONE OF THIS is supernatural.”

    What is considered natural is normal and mundane because we know (thanks to science) the nature of everything and how they work. I reject common knowledge, take nothing for granted and, in true Dawkins fashion, question every dogma of science in the same fashion Dawkins questions dogmas of religion. When I examine the world anew, I run like a computer that no longer processes perceptual information like you guys operating on programs written by mankind. You see yourselves as human beings living on Planet Earth. Not me, not until this assertion can be verified, corroborated and confirmed by independent third parties that don’t have consciousness generated by the human brain. Do you get that, sweetheart?

    Am I supernatural or what?

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    #317214
    @write4u
    Participant

    #317275
    @write4u
    Participant

    Sree said,
    To me, reality is inherently perceptual in nature because the field of consciousness, prior to cognition, has no material qualities.  At the onset of cognition, everything takes on a form, color and texture informed by knowledge to generate an illusion of Nature. Is this supernatural or what? To me, that is God in action.

    It is true, everything takes on form, color, and texture, but that is not informed by a knowledgeable single supernatural entity.

    A mathematical essence to spacetime geometry and its various dynamical properties are quite capable of the self-ordering of mathematical patterns, as can be demonstrated in a laboratory.

    NOTE: it is the self-ordering that can be demonstrated, not the motivation of the experimenters.

    A motivated supernatural being is not required. In fact such an assumption is going down the same path of all mythology, that is old thinking.
    Here is a perfet demonstration of self-organisation in pattern forming. You can even find the double helix of DNA magically appearing. This is a demonstration of evolution in pattern formation on very small temporal and spatial scales.

    This is not a motivated action, it is merely an expression of the mathematical nature of physical interactions and expressions.

    #317346
    @sree
    Participant

    Write4U: “It is true, everything takes on form, color, and texture, but that is not informed by a knowledgeable single supernatural entity.”

    Did I assert the existence of a supernatural entity? What did I say that made you insert that notion into my explanation?

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    #317411
    @write4u
    Participant

    Sree said,

    At the onset of cognition, everything takes on a form, color and texture informed by knowledge to generate an illusion of Nature. Is this supernatural or what? To me, that is God in action.

    Write4U: “It is true, everything takes on form, color, and texture, but that is not informed by a knowledgeable single supernatural entity.”

    Or as you put it, “that is God in action”. Perhaps I misunderstood your post.  I just wanted to offer my perspective of human “cognition” and “learning” without invoking a sort of mystical “teacher”.

    I do agree that ultimately the search for truth is causal to both disciplines of Science and Religion. I believe Nature alone is sufficiently difficult to fully understand without invoking even more mysterious causalites such as divine “miracles”.

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    #317413
    @write4u
    Participant

    Sree said,

    My mind is ever changing, Lausten, like the flowing waters of a stream. I hold on to nothing.

    That’s an excellent perspective and reminds of the closing remarks Roger Antonsen in this excellent video.

     

    #317530
    @sree
    Participant

    Write4U: “Or as you put it, “that is God in action”. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. I just wanted to offer my perspective of human “cognition” and “learning” without invoking a sort of mystical “teacher”.”

    Ok, I did use the word “God”. If there is any misunderstanding on your part, it’s my fault. I am not a theist. “God”, to me, means anything amazing and inexplicable . I don’t accept scientific explanations of phenomena. Those explanations are useful for getting things done and that’s just about it.

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