Welcome


Thank you for visiting our new forum! To start posting again please follow the link below to create a new password. First time forum users please follow the link to register. CFI thanks you for continuing the discussion on evidence-based thinking and humanist values.

Coronavirus


Forums Forums General Discussion Coronavirus

Viewing 15 posts - 736 through 750 (of 784 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #330968
    @timb
    Participant

    As for the murderous dotard… He’s wanting people to get sick and die. Why? I don’t know.

    The best guess that I have is that more people dying is rather irrelevant to him.  Maybe it is just numbers to him, and not worthy of his attention.  But looking popular is of utmost importance to him.  So filling every seat with adoring, non-mask wearing fans, is what is crucial to him – not the lives of those people or their loved ones.

    I wish we had access to his school records. There are probably clues there, as to what underlies his dysfunctional “leadership”.

     

    #330984
    @milliejack
    Participant

    This is a really hard time for everyone. I would suggest that people should be more careful in the future because the virus might spread more in the coming months. WHO has water the second wave could be more dangerous than the first one. No doubt, the virus has affected the world’s GDP badly and but governments need to take decisions accordingly to save them from the economic crisis.
    People must take precautionary measures because only they can save themselves from this virus in the future. We have to act patiently until there is a vaccine.

    #330988
    @ibelieveinlogic
    Participant

    I think the increasing number of cases of the virus really wouldn’t depend upon when we reopen the economy unless we wait until we have a vaccine for everyone.  Too many people have demonstrated that they won’t follow the guidelines or even obey the laws for masks.  So what is the difference between opening now or later?  The longer we wait, the more damage we do to the economy.  More damage suits the liberals fine since they know Trump will want to run on the economy.

    Notice the fake news reports only the increasing number of cases, not the number of deaths which are not increasing significantly.  Many more younger people are getting sick; almost all will recover.  We are protecting older people.  What this comes down to is that we are developing herd immunity without a vaccine.  We are doing this while the economy recovers.

    As much as it angers the left, Trump has been proven right again.  We had to contain the spread and flatten the curve and learn how to protect those with risk factors.  We did those things.  We had to open the economy at some point, the sooner the better.  It is up to the individual to take the necessary protective measures from here on.

    #330998
    @mriana
    Keymaster

    @milliejack I agree people need to be even more cautious, but so many are not, thinking that if they become exposed they build immunity and if they get they won’t get again or as bad. All of those things are falsehoods, possibly deadly falsehoods, but you can’t convince them differently.

    #331032
    @timb
    Participant

    illogic said

    So what is the difference between opening now or later?

    We opened up too soon in places like Fla, Tx,& Az.  And now they are closing some things back up.  Opening too soon, without being prepared to do so safely, doesn’t work.  I have said that MANY times in response to statements like this. It won’t work.

    We need over 95% compliance with mask wearing.  If one wanted that compliance, one would just have to have the leadership skills of a pre-school teacher. Our leader does not have that bit of skill. You simply model mask wearing, make it seem strong and patriotic, then tie it to opening the economy.  We MUST open our economy, and to do that we need to reach 95% compliance with public mask wearing ASAP.

    Beyond the simple things like that, we must have extraordinary capacity for more than enough testing.  We must be able to quickly identify non-symptomatic carriers, isolate them, contact trace, test, isolate, contact trace, isolate, etc. etc. Until the virus is isolated enough that it cannot take over again with the opening economy.

    Notice the fake news reports only the increasing number of cases, not the number of deaths which are not increasing significantly.

    I have been watching the death rate.  True it has not yet shot up.  The next week or 2 should give it time to catch up, as it lags behind the spikes in hospitalizations.

    But hopefully, the death rates will not go up as quickly as they did in April.  We have medical treatments and procedures that we did not have even a couple of months ago.  So our medical establishment have probably gotten more effective at keeping some alive.

    A severe problem is that if the hospitalizations overwhelm the medical assets that we have, then what?  More deaths is what.  Whether from C-19 or other regularly occurring life threatening events that our medical establishment is too overwhelmed to help with.

    What this comes down to is that we are developing herd immunity without a vaccine. We are doing this while the economy recovers.
    As much as it angers the left, Trump has been proven right again.

    Illogic, your exceedingly stupid ideas don’t hold water.   We need 70% or so to have herd immunity.  IF anyone who has had the virus in their body and cleared it, is now immune, and IF that gives ALL of those people immunity for a few years, at least. THEN, maybe, in a couple of years at the soonest, we would have 70% exposed and recovered and immune. 

    Recently, the Chinese found that some people with antibodies from asymptomatic C-19 infection, lost the antibodies after a period of months.

    IOW, it may be necessary to have a more severe case in order to have immunity beyond even a few months.

    Therefore, “herd immunity” is not likely, at all, to be our answer.  And our economy will recover slowly.  It will recover MORE slowly with stupid policies and leadership, such as that brought to us by the t rump.

     

    #331033
    @timb
    Participant

    I have been wondering, why, historically, the “2nd wave” of a pandemic tends to be so much more severe than the 1st wave.  Does the virus do something different? Does it mutate?  What?

    (This virus has already mutated to be more contagious than the original strain. But that is not the key factor in subsequent “waves” being more virulent, I don’t think.)

    I am starting to think that the 2nd wave of a pandemic is more effective at killing more people, because it takes advantage of human nature.  (Not just of our desire to live, make money and socialize, but of our capacity for denial.)

    “Just act as if the virus does not exist” is what illogic and the t rump and others are advocating. That is dysfunctional and deadly.  We need people to overcome this fatal denial, ASAP, and get with the program.  (Except we don’t have the leadership that could have provided us with a program.)  The Northeast had Cuomo.  California will probably be ok.  But the red states that are still trying to please the t rump, instead of saving their citizens, are going to have more problems, until they break ranks with the gooney bag who won’t even wear a mask.

     

    #331038
    @mitch70
    Participant

    @mrianaKeymaster
    The Repugs have been so stupid about this virus and not listening to the medical scientists and the sad thing is, it maybe too late. I hope it’s not, but it might be. They should have took action in February or January.

    I don’t think there was enough push from the Democrats to fight against’ this stupidity and I think that the Repugnants were to afraid to oppose the all mighty TrumPence. Screw them all and their spineless asses. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because it’s more about their political agenda rather than making Umerica grut ugun. I hate politicians with a passion.

    #331052
    @ibelieveinlogic
    Participant

    And our economy will recover slowly.

    Once we figured out how to protect those with risk factors, keeping the economy shut down did nothing but hurt the economy even more.

    Younger people are getting infected and, for most, are recovering quickly without severe problems.  Meanwhile the economy is recovering.

    So when should we open?  In June?  No?  What about August?  Or October?  Or December?  What would be different?  We still won’t have a vaccine, even in December.  If we wait until then, the economy will be crushed, we’ll have unemployment greater than the great depression, and the recovery could take a decade or even two.  Of course the left would be thrilled – they could blame it all on Trump.  Nothing new in that – they’re already blaming him for everything bad.

    Its really too bad Sleepy Joe doesn’t have a message.  If the economy does recover well, Trump’s a shoe-in.

    #331068
    @mriana
    Keymaster

    @ibelieveinlogic

    As much as it angers the left, Trump has been proven right again.

    How so? When was he ever proven right? As far as I can see, he’s been proven wrong time and time again and his former professor is right- the dotard is stupid.

    #331076
    @timb
    Participant

    So when should we open?

    1. How many times do I have to give the same info.  We should open the economy as quickly as it is possible to do so relatively safely, IOW in ways that will not make the opening attempt futile.
    2. That means we should have a low transmission rate, first.
    3. We should make sure that almost everyone is wearing masks in public.
    4. We should have massive testing available and being done to detect outbreaks.
    5. We should have massive contact tracing assets IN PLACE and ready to go.

    THEN, begin opening up the economy. Whenever that is. December, or September, or August, or July.  But it will not be the same as it was before COVID-19.

    • We should start with opening all businesses and activities that have the least danger of C-19 transmission.
    •  Then, if the virus remains under control, we try opening more dangerous activities, to see if accommodations can be made that do not lend themselves to disease spread.
    •  We should recognize when we are not able to do some activities that we did before, without major accommodations.

    Its really too bad Sleepy Joe doesn’t have a message.

    Joltin’ Joe Biden has a message of unity and a sane approach to addressing C-19, among other things.

    When the t rump was asked, on FOX News about his priorities for his next term, he came up empty. The t rump is the one with no message, except LIES about how well he has done, and how great things are, and other varieties of BS.

    https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/asked-his-second-term-priorities-trump-comes-empty-n1232229#:~:text=A%20few%20days%20later%2C%20Trump%20sat%20down%20with,you%20know%2C%20the%20word%20experience%20is%20still%20good.

     

     

    #331079
    @timb
    Participant

    If you are opening the economy willy nilly, without being prepared, thinking you can just ignore the virus away, you are doomed to failure.  And that means that the t rump will not have a great economy. And that may well mean, he loses the election.  That may be why he is panicking and not leading.  Well, he also does not know how to lead.  He only knows how to divide.

    He and you hope that pretending the virus does not exist will make everything better.  But that won’t work.  (How many times have I said it?)

    The trump has not learned over several months now, how to deal with the pandemic. If he had, then he might have a better chance to be re-elected.

    A decent leader, like we had in Obama, would have already had us mostly out of this mess.

     

    #331172
    @ibelieveinlogic
    Participant

    A decent leader, like we had in Obama, would have already had us mostly out of this mess.

    I can hardly stop laughing at this comment.

    Hindsight bias.  I posted about it before.

    willy nilly

    Hardly describes the rather detailed guidelines.  Be honest.

    It is not opening the economy that has caused the increase in infections; it is the people – especially younger people – who are not doing the social distancing and are not wearing masks.  One example: kids from Washington, DC go to Myrtle Beach.  Boys looking for girls, girls looking for boys.  Most find what they’re looking for.  Drinking with a mask is not possible.  Wearing a mask while having sex isn’t going to happen.  A few nights and multiple partners later 100 of these kids from Washington test positive – infected.  Surprise?  Hardly.  Is the public really so stupid that we must declare Covid-19 an STD?

    #331197
    @timb
    Participant

    Hindsight bias.

    So illogic, your argument against hindsight suggests that we should ignore the facts of history.  Obama’s policies saved the world from a horrible potential pandemic called Ebola. Also other Coronaviruses emerged during Obama’s tenure.  None became a pandemic.

    So laugh like an idiot all you want.  Obama was a decent and effective President.  The t rump is a disaster (make that multiple disasters).

    You say young people NOT WEARING MASKS is part of the problem.  Right!!!  The t rump’s lack of effective leadership on having everyone wear masks in public is behind this.  Young people wear safety belts, do they not? They don’t complain about their Constitutional rights to be less safe while driving.

    As far as young people conjugating with strangers.  They often wear rubbers, don’t they?  Why not wear a mask and face shields, and do some erotic role play about f—-ing in outer space. Avoid analingus.  F___ each other with their feet, so that they are not breathing each others air.  Do it outside. Be creative. Do 69. Doggy style. Whatever, just avoid intimately breathing the same air, unless you have both been tested and come up negative for C-19, that day. (BTW, we need self administered C-19 tests that give immediate results. So someone, please invent those, asap.)

    Bars and restaurants should have used this time, IMO, to redesign their air circulation systems on an industrial strength level, such that the indoor air is essentially like outdoor air. Along the lines of the balanced outdoor ventilation system like this:

    Balanced systems are the safest and most energy efficient outdoor-air ventilation systems. They are usually referred to as Heat or Energy Recovery Ventilators HRV/ERVs. They supply and exhaust from known locations reducing risk of pollution and potential of exfiltrating humid-air condensing in hidden building cavities. They usually include filters and are capable of capturing 75-95% of the energy used to condition the indoor-air. https://www.springtimebuilders.com/asheville-builders-blog/37/Outdoor+Air+Ventilation

    Except 95% should be the minimum efficiency.  It is just a matter of altering or designing buildings that can have indoor air circulation that is comparable to or (with filters) better than, outdoor air circulation.

    We know that outdoor activities are around 18 times less likely to result in C-19 transmission.  Do some moderate social spacing indoors, with such a system, and encourage mask wearing during the times that people are talking to each other instead of the times they are putting things in their mouths, and wah-LAH!, you have a relatively safe business.

    It should be the cost of doing business.  Pass the expense along to the consumer. People would pay for a safe place to socialize.

    Is the public really so stupid that we must declare Covid-19 an STD?

    Obviously some members of the public are quite stupid about C-19. But those are too stupid or horny to care.  We can’t reach everyone.  (Note STD’s still exist.) But with truth and proper leadership, we could reach some of them.  Plus, apparently, these days, young people are not getting it on, as much as they did during our day. So one on one interaction with strangers who don’t take precautions, may not be a big vector of C-19 spread.  Unless they are participating in orgies.

     

     

    #331211
    @timb
    Participant

    Here is some news.  This could be big. In Brazil, things are so bad that they have 5,000 volunteers who are now being experimented on with a newly developed vaccine.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/brazil-ravaged-by-the-coronavirus-becomes-key-testing-ground-for-vaccine/ar-BB16fC6b?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

    Other new vaccines are also preparing to have these “challenge” tests done in Brazil. This could greatly reduce the time needed to find an effective vaccine.

    Hence, I think we could have an effective vaccine available THIS Year.  Of course, it is also possible that we will never have an effective vaccine.

    #331258
    @ibelieveinlogic
    Participant

    Attention all end-of-the-world doomsayers, covid-19 is not going to kill us all.  In fact it is not particularly deadly.  We will have a vaccine in a few months.  The problem will be getting the public to accept it.  Meanwhile, we must do what we can to salvage the economy and avoid another great depression.  Young people, old people, everyone, do your part, wear a mask, wash your hands and try to stick with one bonking partner.

Viewing 15 posts - 736 through 750 (of 784 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.