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Exploring The Human Conscious Light Screen


Forums Forums Philosophy Exploring The Human Conscious Light Screen

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 46 total)
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  • #317632
    @timb
    Participant

    Memories are one of the cognitive consciousness behaviors that we engage in.  If memories are subject to modification by personal historical environmental experiences, then we can assume they are operant behaviors.  It is therefore NOT irrelevant to a discussion of consciousness.  Our understanding of consciousness can be vastly improved by a paradigm, wherein, we recognize that it is subject to behavior analysis.

    Or we could develop useless constructs to create a faux problem that obstructs understanding, followed by the development of other useless constructs to address the initial useless construct.  This useless intellectual endeavor will enlighten us not one bit.  Maybe it will get some naïve researchers tenure somewhere, but that’s about it.

    #317740

    We all know your shorthand is Crap.

    Sounds like someone losing a rational argument.  Come Steven step up your game.

    #317762
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    TimB:
    2 things Klinko,
    1) Idk what you are talking about when you say “…there is this undeniable Screen embedded in the front of all our faces showing us the Scene we are looking at.” Is it something I can see in a mirror? What is the screen made of? Is this undeniable screen in the front of our face active when we visualize a scene, or see it in a dream?

    You can’t see the Screen in a mirror and you can’t see other people’s Screens. I’m just saying that if you follow the procedure in the OP and See where your Noise is that the Noise seems to be located slightly embedded in the front of your face. This is where the Screen seems to be. It’s not a Physical Space Screen. Since it is a Conscious Mind Phenomenon it is logical to call it is a Conscious Light Screen because it is where your Conscious Light is displayed. This seems to be the Screen where Dreams are displayed and where Awake images are displayed.

     

    TimB:
    2) Consciousness is the variety of cognitive consciousness behaviors that we engage in.
    I can’t make the explanation simpler than that, yet you can’t process it.

    I think you are talking about the general concept of Consciousness here. I don’t deal with general Consciousness, so what you say could be true.  I am interested specifically in Conscious Sensory Perceptions. The Redness, the Standard A Tone, the Salty Taste, and etc…

     

    #317764
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    TimB:
    Memories are one of the cognitive consciousness behaviors that we engage in.  If memories are subject to modification by personal historical environmental experiences, then we can assume they are operant behaviors.  It is therefore NOT irrelevant to a discussion of consciousness.  Our understanding of consciousness can be vastly improved by a paradigm, wherein, we recognize that it is subject to behavior analysis.

    I think you are again talking about general Consciousness, where Memories might be important. But for the Experience of something like Redness Memories are probably 99% Irrelevant. The Redness is a thing in itself. What is it?

    TimB:
    Or we could develop useless constructs to create a faux problem that obstructs understanding, followed by the development of other useless constructs to address the initial useless construct.  This useless intellectual endeavor will enlighten us not one bit.  Maybe it will get some naïve researchers tenure somewhere, but that’s about it.

    You never have explained why you think the Hard Problem is, as you like to say, Crap.

    #317766
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    Citizenschallenge-v.3:
    We all know your shorthand is Crap.
    Sounds like someone losing a rational argument. Come Steven step up your game.

    Yawn …

    #317769
    @timb
    Participant

    Klinko stated: “You can’t see the Screen in a mirror and you can’t see other people’s Screens. I’m just saying that if you follow the procedure in the OP and See where your Noise is that the Noise seems to be located slightly embedded in the front of your face. This is where the Screen seems to be. It’s not a Physical Space Screen. Since it is a Conscious Mind Phenomenon it is logical to call it is a Conscious Light Screen because it is where your Conscious Light is displayed. This seems to be the Screen where Dreams are displayed and where Awake images are displayed.”

    Wow.

    I have an ephemeral hypothetical construct in my sinus cavities? This is sure to advance the field of understanding consciousness?  Not a physical screen, you say.  Just an invisible non corporeal conceptual structure of a screen and my “Conscious Light” another hypothetical construct is circa my sinus cavities also.  These constructs are supposed to elucidate, but they just clutter things up.

    Also I blew my nose earlier. Do you think I may have blown out my Conscious Light Screen?  It was a clear-ish mucous substance.

    #317847
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    To TimB:

    You want to deny what is staring you in the face. That’s ok with me.
    I think though that if you did blow your CLS out your nose it would not be clear-ish but rather it would contain all the Colors and you would then be rendered Blind.

    #317866
    @timb
    Participant

    Actually the CLS is not visible, since it is JUST a mental CONSTRUCT.  It does not actually exist anywhere in reality, not even in my sinuses.

    #318065
    @write4u
    Participant

    I agree with Tim. What we think the brain sees is not photons. What we see is a controlled hallucination.

    When I think of the sun I don’t see any light, I experience the memory of seeing light. Only the eyes experience the reception of photons directly on the retina, at which time the wave function collapses. The retina converts the light into electrochemical messages and by a process of efference to the brain and afference by the brain these electrical messages are experienced as a color image, but not as light.

    The Brain and the Eye
    The eye works like a camera. The iris and the pupil control how much light to let into the back of the eye, much like the shutter of a camera. When it is very dark, our pupils get bigger, letting in more light; when it is very bright our irises constrict, letting in very little light.

    The lens of the eye, like the lens of a camera, helps us to focus. But just as a camera uses mirrors and other mechanical devices to focus, we rely on eyeglasses and contact lenses to help us to see more clearly.

    The focus light rays are then directed to the back of the eye, on to the retina, which acts like the film in a camera. The cells in the retina absorb and convert the light to electrochemical impulses which are transferred along the optic nerve to the brain. The brain is instrumental in helping us see as it translates the image into something we can understand.

    The Brain and the Eye – How They Work Together

    I think what SJKlinko identifies as a light screen is only the retina. From that point on there is no light,  just electrochemical information.

    This allows us to form colored images from memory. The brain cannot store light, it does not need to. Its that simple.

    #318608
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    Write4U:
    I agree with Tim. What we think the brain sees is not photons. What we see is a controlled hallucination.
    When I think of the sun I don’t see any light, I experience the memory of seeing light. Only the eyes experience the reception of photons directly on the retina, at which time the wave function collapses. The retina converts the light into electrochemical messages and by a process of efference to the brain and afference by the brain these electrical messages are experienced as a color image, but not as light.
    The Brain and the Eye
    The eye works like a camera. The iris and the pupil control how much light to let into the back of the eye, much like the shutter of a camera. When it is very dark, our pupils get bigger, letting in more light; when it is very bright our irises constrict, letting in very little light.
    The lens of the eye, like the lens of a camera, helps us to focus. But just as a camera uses mirrors and other mechanical devices to focus, we rely on eyeglasses and contact lenses to help us to see more clearly.
    The focus light rays are then directed to the back of the eye, on to the retina, which acts like the film in a camera. The cells in the retina absorb and convert the light to electrochemical impulses which are transferred along the optic nerve to the brain. The brain is instrumental in helping us see as it translates the image into something we can understand.

    The CLS is for Conscious Light not Physical Light (Photons). You must understand the difference between Conscious Light and Physical Light. If you keep talking about Photons and Retinas then you clearly do not understand what Conscious Light is. Conscious Light happens after the Retina and after all the Neural Processing that the Brain does. The Conscious Light is a product of the final Processing stage in the Visual Process. Conscious Light is a thing that happens in the Mind. Physical Light is a thing that happens out in the External World.

    #318627
    @timb
    Participant

    Klinko said>  “The CLS is for Conscious Light not Physical Light (Photons). You must understand the difference between Conscious Light and Physical Light. If you keep talking about Photons and Retinas then you clearly do not understand what Conscious Light is. Conscious Light happens after the Retina and after all the Neural Processing that the Brain does. The Conscious Light is a product of the final Processing stage in the Visual Process. Conscious Light is a thing that happens in the Mind. Physical Light is a thing that happens out in the External World.”

    TimB’s reply>  So you’re saying that this thing we call “mind” has a projection screen in it (CLS) and anything and everything that we visualize is projected on to that screen.  Is there also a homunculus in our “mind” who puts up and takes down the screen?

    I think that the metaphor of a Screen is too belabored.  When we visualize something, there is a pattern of neurological correlates firing off. That’s all.  The neurons firing does not involve a screen.  It is just neurons firing in a certain way, such that I “see” some facsimile of a tree.

    #319193
    @write4u
    Participant

    It is like the patterns of the constellations in the night sky. Astrology is based on that metaphor.

    Constellation

    A constellation is an area on the celestial sphere in which a group of stars forms an imaginary outline or pattern, typically representing an

    animal, mythological person or creature, a god, or an inanimate object.[1]

    http://www.space.com/images/i/000/017/054/original/northern-constellations-sky.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=inside%7C660:*

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Write4U.
    #319842
    @steveklinko
    Participant

    TimB’s reply> So you’re saying that this thing we call “mind” has a projection screen in it (CLS) and anything and everything that we visualize is projected on to that screen. Is there also a homunculus in our “mind” who puts up and takes down the screen?
    I think that the metaphor of a Screen is too belabored. When we visualize something, there is a pattern of neurological correlates firing off. That’s all. The neurons firing does not involve a screen. It is just neurons firing in a certain way, such that I “see” some facsimile of a tree.

     

    All I’m saying is that it sure seems like some kind of Screen. Physicalists like to use the word Homunculus as a derogatory comment about the conscious Self. There sure is a Screen there as you can well see the next time you open your eyes and look. You so Blithely just say: “I See some facsimile of a tree” as if you think you know How it is that you See that tree.

    #320032

    Actually the CLS is not visible, since it is JUST a mental CONSTRUCT.  It does not actually exist anywhere in reality, not even in my sinuses.

    I like that Tim  🙂

     

    Which brings me back to Gould’s magisterium and his missing key.

    The missing key is appreciating the fundamental “Magisteria of Physical Reality,” – and recognizing that both science and religion are products of the “Magisteria of Our Human Mindscape.”

    Science seeks to objectively learn about our physical world, but we should still recognize all our understanding is embedded within and constrained by our brain’s mindscape.

    Religion is all about the human mindscape itself, with its wonderful struggles, fears, spiritual undercurrents, needs and stories we create to give our live’s meaning and make it worth living, or at least bearable.

    What’s the point?  I think it’s about better appreciating our ‘frame of reference’ – and especially recognizing that we aren’t the center of creation.

    😉

    #320033

    W4U to the rescue again, I love the stuff you’re sharing.  Here’s an appendix item.

    Optical nerve pathways in the human brain. simulation by Moko3D

    Moko3D

    http://www.moko3d.com How human eyes connect and transmit information to our brains. Visualising optical nerve pathways, human brain anatomy & architecture. Part of an iPAD app for health providers & professionals, Doctors/GP’s etc. This sequence shows low lighting conditions, e.g. night time, stimulating the Pineal gland to release melatonin in the brain.

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