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Is the mind pictures?


Forums Forums General Discussion Is the mind pictures?

This topic contains 311 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Citizenschallenge-v.3 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 312 total)
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  • #298690

    Lausten
    Participant

    You aren’t “merely stating”, you are claiming there aren’t counters to these statements.

    We can and have responded to it. You can, but you pretend like you can’t. There is nothing to “get around”. When someone asserts something with no evidence, there is no logic or evidence required to show they did that. You can merely point that out. BTW, why did you put “counter” in quotes? Also, Googling something and finding it repeated doesn’t reinforce its truth.

    I know you’re pretending because you tell us what you “highly doubt”. You tell us things happen without you being aware of it, and that what is doesn’t have to make some degree of sense. You are an unusual troll, but you are still a troll.

    #298836

    Kevin
    Participant

    interesting thread

    #298841

    3point14rat
    Participant

    “interesting thread”

    So, Kevin, do you have an opinion on this?

    Adding your view will make it even more interesting.

    #298950

    Xain
    Participant

    We can and have responded to it. You can, but you pretend like you can’t. There is nothing to “get around”. When someone asserts something with no evidence, there is no logic or evidence required to show they did that. You can merely point that out. BTW, why did you put “counter” in quotes? Also, Googling something and finding it repeated doesn’t reinforce its truth.

    I know you’re pretending because you tell us what you “highly doubt”. You tell us things happen without you being aware of it, and that what is doesn’t have to make some degree of sense. You are an unusual troll, but you are still a troll.

    But no one has given me an answer in regards to the whole bit about “who you really are” (by throwing out family, self, what moves you, etc, because they say that isn’t it). If I knew the answer to this I would say so, but when I ponder and think I end up proving the people right.

    Like how it says you are the universe.  That you aren’t “born” but rather just a form, that this is just another form or “manifestation” (I’m sorry about that, it sounds silly but I’m working within their vocabulary). People told me that death isn’t the destruction of matter, so when you die I guess they mean that you don’t really die but just transition to another “form”. That what looks like birth and death to us is really just the passing and shaping of forms of this universe.

    I want to say that is nonsense and they are just looking for a way to deal with death (like most cultures tend to do), but when I question that I just end up back to proving them. That is why I ask for help, I can’t do this by myself.

    #298955

    Lausten
    Participant

    but when I question that I just end up back to proving them

    Show me your work. Show me this proof. I can’t comment on “I ponder it and end up proving it”.

    #298970

    Xain
    Participant

    I just noted it. It’s the second paragraph. But the hardest thing for me to overcome is this idea of “beyond any concept we have”.  Like the truth is something that someone can’t describe as mentioned here.

    label me anything you like, spiritual, delusional, whatever, but just by telling me that I’m wrong posits that you are correct. You are assuming that I am seeking completion. I am not. Completion would leave nothing more to live for. However, I have saught answers to the big questions of life and self since I was very very young. I was born a seeker of truth and as a child I felt I couldn’t truly go into the world without knowing why I’m going out or what I’m going out into and as what am I going out. I couldn’t find any reasonable answers from any adult source so I began studying Christianity and then when I still had questions found myself searching other religions and science as well. They all point to a conclusion that doesn’t need explained again. At the end of the day all this is, the theory that I and many other spiritual people have witnessed, is no more than words on a screen. I’m no longer interested in the semantics and I admit that some of my outlook may not be 100% accurate but it’s what I experience. You are entitled to disagree. It takes all kinds as they say. It is strange to me however as to what you are doing on this video of you don’t have vision yet and are closed to the subject entirely. I’m open to ur worldview and I have taken into consideration many times the big bang theory. Something curious seems to prevail in that black holes are said to contain a singularity. This is something that destroys many other theories about gravity and time and space; in the existence of a singularity within a dual universe, we must have infinite density at the core. This is the prevailing idea as to whether or not we can rely on Einsteinian calculations or start to view the universe from the basis of a singularity and begin from there. Many scientists are already considering matter as having been created from consciousness and not the other way around. You cannot make something from nothing. In the beginning of our universe there must have been a some-thing in which to explode and expand at ever increasing speed. This something.. where did it come from then? It makes the absolute most sense to me that within consciousness we have a seemingly existing universe. I also entertain the idea that a dying star created a black hole in another universe and sucked matter in and condensed it and on the other side of that we experience the big bang and creation and distribution of our universe. Trust me at least on the fact that I have spent alot of time weighing theories/ideas and did not arrive at my worldview out of some need for completion. The bent of my nature is pulled towards seeing things in a balanced fashion. Balance. Seeing from both sides, considering all things and all things includes the path of the shaman, the medicine wheel, the eastern outlook. I’m from the west, I already know enough western ideology. The East however has a much older, richer, and more vast wealth of theology and religion that points to things I hadn’t been raised to consider, opening me up to a whole vista of ways to realize what is actually the truth of our existence. What lies at the heart of the matter? Who are we and where did we come from. I have my ideas and most of them are from actual personal experience that you dismiss as “hallucination” but I can’t translate the experience and it’s reality to you so it is only my word. I have nothing to prove to anyone but I enjoy learning more while also practicing being present in the moment without bringing my egoic conditioning into how I view reality. Most everyone never witnesses what is truly reality because they are wearing many masks, many layers of conditioned thinking making what is truly there into something that fits what they know about reality from all the concepts they have adopted. That is why I say my theory is no more than mere words. I can’t express perfectly what my reality became once I realized what is. That leaves me with mere words that bend what I witness(ed) (am witnessing) to explain that which cannot be explained. That’s ok. It’s ok that you assume I have adopted a theory too. Everything is always ok and I am not stressing anything, only realizing myself and my world while being the silence that is the beginning of a thought, a form, a sound; all things arise out of silence and that is my focus, it is my heart and it is consciously aware of the fact that it exists and it is a divine miracle to me and this miracle is Me, Self, within and without this body, I am.

     

    #298974

    Lausten
    Participant

    You have to be joking. This barely passes basic grammar tests. I’ll just pick one thing. It’s pretty key. If you can’t answer this, the whole thing is in trouble.

    Many scientists are already considering matter as having been created from consciousness and not the other way around.

    Really? name one.

    #298975

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Lausten, you’re a warrior.

    But this battle is unwinnable. Xian loves mystery, not truth. He will stand in one place forever, ogling mystery, rather than take one step forward by thinking about it.

    I know and am friends with lots of people like this- if you ignore their inability to show an interest in the truth, they are often great people, just don’t get involved in political/religious/philosophical discussions with them, or you will wonder why you’re friends with them.

    #298980

    Xain
    Participant

    Once again you couldn’t be further from the point Rat.

    I don’t like mystery, unless it’s just idle wondering. The thing about stuff like this is that I want it to be wrong but when other people I speak to about it just call it nonsense and don’t show the work why it makes it hard to buy it from them.

    Lausten asked for the reasoning behind the “you are the universe” and things similar to that and hasn’t responded to it. Your response is more like to call it nonsense, but not say why or even show why it is so. You aren’t really helpful here.

    I would like to be done with this stuff so I can sleep at night and not be haunted. But the fact that you see people who claim to have experiences a truth that can’t be put into words (like the block text says) and it shows in their behavior, you can’t help but give pause to just writing them off. One can’t just label something as nonsense without saying why. It’s similar to how your answer to what questions are worthwhile seems to be “because I say so” (that didn’t work on me as a kid and it won’t now, you just can’t answer). You seem to place the blame on me for your inability to poke holes in their argument or claim.

    Its not like I enjoy thinking about this stuff, but it threatens to undermine what I know of life.

    #298989

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Xian, remember all the things I’ve said on here? I know you don’t, so I strongly urge you to go to my profile, go to my posts, and read them. I haven’t been posting on here that long, so it won’t take nearly as long to read as it takes to read an article from off the internet that might drown you in more angst.

    Read with an open mind and think about things that contradict what you believe (especially if you only kinda believe it because you read an article on the internet). On one of these threads you said you couldn’t write off the possibility of a giant hummingbird living on the moon- that right there demonstrates that you put no thought into it at all. There are lots of other things I’ve said that you completely ignored, which, understandably, makes me feel like my time with you wasted (other than having fun coming up with things like hummingbirds on the moon.) And others have spent far more time with you than I have, and they really aren’t getting value for their time.

    Unless you take the time and effort required to seriously think about all of the stuff we spent time and effort giving to you, you are disrespecting all of us.

     

    #298995

    Lausten
    Participant

     At the end of the day all this is, the theory that I and many other spiritual people have witnessed, is no more than words on a screen. I’m no longer interested in the semantics and I admit that some of my outlook may not be 100% accurate but it’s what I experience.

    This is the expression of his ideas as a mystery. He tells you he is not going to explain himself.

    #298997

    3point14rat
    Participant

    It’s so bizarre. He says he doesn’t care about explaining it, yet he insists on having us explain it to him, then he tells us we don’t understand what he doesn’t understand, and then asks us another (or, more often, the very same) question.

    There’s no doubt he’s confused about his place and purpose in the universe. And I can honestly empathize with him regarding questions of ultimate meaning (I was there at one time). But when I was reading and listening to other points of view and arguments, I listened and thought long and hard on what I heard. I had a belief that contradicted what I heard, so I had to either reconcile them or toss one of them. In the end, after years of thought and more reading/listening, I had the confidence to toss my old beliefs and embrace a more thoughtful and reasonable way of looking at the world.

    Xian is facing a wall with graffiti on it, thinking that if he can decipher the graffiti, he’ll find a way through the wall. Unfortunately, there’s no meaning in it so he’ll stand there forever until he realizes that he merely needs to turn around and start walking. We’re all yelling at him to turn, but he’s so convinced there’s meaning in front of him, he’s shushing us and asking for help.

    I swing between caring (because I actually do), and writing him off (because it’s really annoying to care but be ignored).

    #298999

    Lausten
    Participant

    I didn’t specifically mention this thread, but my thread on the book “Sapiens” is directly related to this. What sites and gurus like this do is take Buddhism, which says we live an illusion, and Westernizes it. In Buddhism, the focus is on accepting who you are and knowing who you are, which is a being on a planet with feelings. We will always have desires and many of them are not healthy to pursue, so just accept what you are, you will experience pain and sadness, but you can be at peace with that. The Westernization occurs when we turn it into a goal. We make the pursuit of inner peace a holy grail type quest, and if you achieve “it” then you receive ultimate wisdom and release yourself completely from earthly problems. Except of course that doesn’t work. Ironically, we know more about the mind today and could actually update Buddhist philosophy and use the practices to increase our sense of flourishing as humans.

    #299000

    Lausten
    Participant

    Lausten asked for the reasoning behind the “you are the universe” and things similar to that and hasn’t responded to it. Your response is more like to call it nonsense, but not say why or even show why it is so. You aren’t really helpful here.

    I would like to be done with this stuff so I can sleep at night and not be haunted. But the fact that you see people who claim to have experiences a truth that can’t be put into words (like the block text says) and it shows in their behavior, you can’t help but give pause to just writing them off.

    I did respond. I showed a flaw in the reasoning. If you say there is science behind the idea that matter comes form consciousness, show me that science. If you can’t, then you are making untrue claims.

    And there’s another claim you just made. What behaviors are they showing that you see as evidence that they have some knowledge that you think is important, so they can see “balance” and view reality and know that which can’t explained. What behaviors would demonstrate that?

    #299010

    Write4U
    Participant

    [quote]Lausten said,

    I did respond. I showed a flaw in the reasoning. If you say there is science behind the idea that matter comes form consciousness, show me that science. If you can’t, then you are making untrue claims.[/quote]

    IMO, matter comes from the mathematical self-assembly of physical values and functions.

    People seem to forget that mathematical values and functions behave in a quasi-intelligent manner, without actually being intelligent.

    A snowflakes is perfect example of a spontaneous self-assembly of an apparently intelligent design. But we all know the simple environmental conditions that are causal to the formation of a snowflake. No intent is necessary.

    David Bohm addressed this seemingly intelligent motivation as deterministic mathematical “Implicate” the logical prediction of a future explication in reality

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