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Is there permanent pleasure?


Forums Forums General Discussion Is there permanent pleasure?

This topic contains 37 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Xain 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 38 total)
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  • #297465

    Xain
    Participant

    Buddhism seems to suggest that one must sacrifice “lesser pleasures” in pursuit of a permanent and lasting happiness. This means art, music, TV, food (not starvation but just for sustaining), video games, sex, etc. They claim that some of the practitioners have achieved this lasting bliss and happiness that “comes from within”. I’m not sure so if that is really true, even then I don’t want to give up my life as it is. Even if this stuff doesn’t last I still like it and don’t want to give it up. But then they throw in references about how we are just like children with toys and when we grow up we don’t miss the toys anymore (though that seems personal and subjective not really a point). The toys being temporary pleasures and how adults have more interesting and refined pursuits (again subjective and personal). I just don’t like how they render all the other stuff in life “pointless” because it doesn’t last. If I wanted permanent peace I would off myself.

    #297468

    Ain’t no such thing as permanent.

    On second thought, guess there’s death.

     

     

    {Imagine the horror of an orgasm that’s permanent.}

    Yeah, people say a lot of stuff.  And you wonder why I trust my gut  ;- )

    #297489

    Advocatus
    Participant

    I’m no expert, but the understanding I have of Buddhist teaching is that what they shun is the desire for material things.  Desire leads to disappointment, anger and disillusionment.  They can’t be opposed to Art because Buddhists write books and create paintings.  Steven Seagal is supposedly a Buddhist and he makes action movies (or he used to).  They can’t be opposed to Music because there is music all around us in nature.  They can’t be opposed to friendships because they live in communities.

    #297513

    Xain
    Participant

    That’s kind of missing the point. They are against art, and friendship. You mistake the living in communities for friends. And it’s not material things, it’s anythinf that is a transient pleasure.

    #297516

    Lausten
    Participant

    That’s kind of missing the point. They are against art, and friendship. You mistake the living in communities for friends. And it’s not material things, it’s anythinf that is a transient pleasure.

    Well, this exists, https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.043.khan.html, which includes something about refraining from dancing, but I find that about as obscure as some Baptists saying something similar. Given the amount of art by Buddhists that exists, I would not go so far as to say “they are against” it. Buddhism is about intention and practice. So if you are making a presentation, artistic or otherwise, that is intended to invoke anger, then you are going against one the precepts. If you are attempting to invoke harmony, I don’t think the Buddha would care.

     

    #297520

    Xain
    Participant

    It’s more like refraining from temporary and transient things such as dancing and art, for they don’t last. One must remain focused on liberation.

    They say that such pursuits fall under “wrong view” because to find someone enjoyable we have to project qualities onto it that it doesn’t have.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128721732

    This gets at that theory that finding something pleasurable is based on what we believe it to be, or it’s essence.  Buddhism says this view is wrong and is one of the things that leads to suffering. So I’m guessing that I am wrong when I say I like something?

    #297525

    Lausten
    Participant

    I can’t tell if you’re saying what you think, or what you think Buddhism is, or what. I understand the feedback loop of believing something should make you happy and what “actually” makes you happy. Also, long term vs short term happiness, and lots of other complex interactions. So far, in your descriptions of Buddhism, you haven’t said much about Nirvana. That’s kinda the goal, but the way of Buddhism is to let go of it as a goal so then you can achieve. Okay, but the question still remains, what is it? How do you know you got there?

    #297558

    Xain
    Participant

    https://browardmeditation.org/what-is-meditation/overview/

    We supposedly the likes and dislikes that we have are merely the false mind, and that through practice we cleanse ourselves of these things to find out who we really are (whatever that means).

    #297559

    Xain
    Participant

    Reading about their meditation method makes it sound buddhist, as well as the whole “letting go” to achieve what you really are. But that sounds like destroying rather than getting at who you are.

    #297561

    Advocatus
    Participant

    Xain wrote:  “It’s more like refraining from temporary and transient things such as dancing and art, for they don’t last. One must remain focused on liberation.”

    I’m getting the impression that you’re reading this stuff somewhere without fully understanding it.  Clothes are temporary and transient things, but we don’t see Buddhists going around nude.  Food  is  temporary and transient, but Buddhists eat and drink.  All pleasures are temporary and transient, but that’s no reason to abstain from them.  Pleasure is just not the be-all and the end-all of existence.  In a way it’s similar to the Stoicism of the Greeks and Romans.  What’s important is to be grateful for what you have rather than agonize over things you don’t have.

    #297562

    Xain
    Participant

    Except that is not what they mean.

    They actually do mean to abstain from pursuing and seeking it out for it only provides temporary relief and it’s a hinderance to the path. They liken it to a child having to discard toys.

    The link I posted talks about having to cleanse the “false self” which is rooted in personal and sensory experience in order to live freely. They view the past, memories, likes and dislikes, as burdens which isn’t unlike Buddhism.

    #297563

    Who cares what they meant?   Ask  yourself why you give them so much authority over your outlook.

    Beyond that I love the way Advocatus can phrase it:

    I’m getting the impression that you’re reading this stuff somewhere without fully understanding it.

    Clothes are temporary and transient things, but we don’t see Buddhists going around nude.

    Food  is  temporary and transient, but Buddhists eat and drink.

    All pleasures are temporary and transient, but that’s no reason to abstain from them.

    Pleasure is just not the be-all and the end-all of existence.

    In a way it’s similar to the Stoicism of the Greeks and Romans.

    What’s important is to be grateful for what you have rather than agonize over things you don’t have.

    #297564

    Xain
    Participant

    But he didn’t address what it’s actually about. The like to the meditation site is closer to what it is, which is throwing away things.

    #297565

    Xain
    Participant

    Like about cleansing the false self which is rooted in experience and sensation. You are not your likes, dislikes, status, etc, because those change.

    #297566

    Lausten
    Participant

    The moment of the Buddha’s enlightenment is shrouded in symbolism, so no wonder you can find different interpretations of it. To claim that this meditation site is correct is dubious. Gautama sat down to meditate until he achieved enlightenment, depriving himself of all worldly things. But when he realized it all just is what it is, he returned to the world where joy is available and experiencing it is neither bad nor good. Demons and gods have no power over the wisdom of being present in the moment.

    As Gautama sat in deep meditation, Mara, Lord of Illusion, perceiving that his power was about to be broken, rushed to distract him from his purpose. The Bodhisattva touched the earth, calling it to bear witness the countless lifetimes of virtue that had led him to this place of enlightenment. When the earth shook, confirming the truth of Gautama’s words, Mara unleashed his army of demons. In the epic battle that ensued, Gautama’s wisdom broke through the illusions and the power of his compassion transformed the demons’ weapons into flowers and Mara and all his forces fled in disarray.

    The Bodhi Moment

     

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