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Levels of Understanding For the Human Visual Experience


Forums Forums Philosophy Levels of Understanding For the Human Visual Experience

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 106 total)
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  • #329096
    @sree
    Participant

    I am unable to understand what I am just thinking about it. The Redness, and all the other Sensory Experiences, come from inside my Mind, so I understand that I literally am the Redness and I am the other Experiences. This thought has gotten me closer to understanding what I might be.

    I like the way you articulated this. You are the Redness: the Experiencer is the experience. We are using the English Language to express something new. Language is the tool of expression for describing known concepts of reality. The search for the nature of Redness and its causation is an endeavor to step beyond the limits of current science to discover a new reality. This is ground-breaking stuff.

    #329145
    @steveklinko
    Blocked

    I like the way you articulated this. You are the Redness: the Experiencer is the experience. We are using the English Language to express something new. Language is the tool of expression for describing known concepts of reality. The search for the nature of Redness and its causation is an endeavor to step beyond the limits of current science to discover a new reality. This is ground-breaking stuff.

    I’m happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.

    One thing I should add to my previous post is that although I can Logically come to the conclusion that I Am the Redness, I still cannot understand How I am the Redness. It still seems to me to be an Experience and Experiencer dichotomy.

     

    #329156
    @sree
    Participant

    I’m happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.

    Excitement is an understatement when you sense that you are on the cusp of finding something new. This is more mind-blowing that inventing the wheel, the computer, or flying to the moon. All those achievements are feats in the acquisition of knowledge within the domain of reality and the field of consciousness. Grappling with consciousness itself is exactly what it is: mind-blowing.  It dwarfs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did and far more meaningful to mankind than what Elon Musk is chasing.  I don’t think the scientific approach to understanding Redness has anything to do with the settled science of theoretical physics.

     One thing I should add to my previous post is that although I can Logically come to the conclusion that I Am the Redness, I still cannot understand How I am the Redness. It still seems to me to be an Experience and Experiencer dichotomy.

    I am absolutely with you on this. Logic and reason are part and parcel of sane inquiry. We may intuit that we are the Redness by making a quantum leap of logic. But until this gap in reason is resolved, it is unscientific to proceed with speculation. To do so is to indulge in self-deception.

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    #329202
    @steveklinko
    Blocked

    I’m happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.

    Excitement is an understatement when you sense that you are on the cusp of finding something new. This is more mind-blowing that inventing the wheel, the computer, or flying to the moon. All those achievements are feats in the acquisition of knowledge within the domain of reality and the field of consciousness. Grappling with consciousness itself is exactly what it is: mind-blowing.  It dwarfs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did and far more meaningful to mankind than what Elon Musk is chasing.  I don’t think the scientific approach to understanding Redness has anything to do with the settled science of theoretical physics.

    There will need to be a New Approach when Science finally comes to grips with Consciousness. For now Science is sadly just sweeping Consciousness under the rug.

    I am absolutely with you on this. Logic and reason are part and parcel of sane inquiry. We may intuit that we are the Redness by making a quantum leap of logic. But until this gap in reason is resolved, it is unscientific to proceed with speculation. To do so is to indulge in self-deception.

    A Speculation is merely a Premise put forward that will either be proved or disproved by Experiments or the test of time. I think that Speculation has been the basis for a lot of good Science. Edison Speculated that he would be able to find the right filament material to make the light bulb a practical product. His lab tested over 6000 different materials before he found the best filament.

     

    #329267
    @timb
    Participant

    The Levels of Understanding of the Internal Combustion Engine:

    Level 1- You turn the key for the ignition, and the Engine starts. You can drive away.

    Level 2- You come to understand that, inside the engine there are cylinders with have movable pistons that go up and down when the right mixture of fuel and air enters the cylinders and explode, pushing the pistons (that are attached to other parts of the engine) up and down.

    Level 3- This is the HARD PART that NO ONE will EVER be able to understand, after so many years of trying:  What causes the explosion???  Sure you can say that it is a spark that ignites a certain mixture of air and gas, but that doesn’t explain what an explosion is.  Some things explode and others don’t.  How can we EVER explain such a thing???

    _____

    Oh wait, it is not really a HARD PROBLEM at all.  Some things explode, under the right conditions, and some things don’t.  THAT IS THE EXPLANATION.  IT JUST IS. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS.

    JUST LIKE WHEN YOUR EYE TAKES IN INFORMATION AND YOUR BRAIN INTERPRETS IT AS BEAUTIFUL COLORS.  THAT IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS.  IT IS NOT A HARD PROBLEM WAITING TO BE SOLVED. IT IS WHAT HAPPENS.

    A child might ask “why”, and being given an answer to which they ask why of that, and so on until there is no other explanation left except “That’s what happens. The neurons fire in such a way that you see beautiful colors.”  That is something that our brain does. No HARD PROBLEM is manifested except by those who may wish it to be something else.

    #329268
    @timb
    Participant

    As far as “consciousness” goes.  I have explained what that is many times on these threads. Once more into the useless breach, for the swine to trample on my pearls of wisdom – into their muck and refuse, never recognizing the value of what they trample away:

    Consciousness is the composite of certain cognitive behaviors that manifest in our brains as neurological correlates.

    There you go, trample away.

    #329273
    @steveklinko
    Blocked

    timb:

     

    If you would or could think more Deeply about your own Conscious Sensory Experiences you would discover the Infantile nature of your analogy.

    #329283
    @timb
    Participant

    Your Deep Thoughts go nowhere.

    But carry on.  I tire of wasting pearls on you.

    #329299
    @3point14rat
    Participant

    “If you would or could think more Deeply about your own Conscious Sensory Experiences you would discover the Infantile nature of your analogy.”

    The random use of capitalization never ceases to impress the most ignorant and uneducated of audiences. Even meaningless drivel like this can be made to appear profound.

    Unfortunately for you, most of the people here are neither ignorant nor uneducated.

    Instead of posting here, try writing your message on a sandwich-board that you wear while shouting and waving your hands in traffic. You can be sure your many capital letters won’t capture fewer converts than they do here. (Pro-Tip: wear shoes or no one will take you seriously.)

    #329302
    @sree
    Participant

    Unfortunately for you, most of the people here are neither ignorant nor uneducated.

    You wish.

     

    #329307
    @sree
    Participant

    As far as “consciousness” goes. I have explained what that is many times on these threads.

    Explaining consciousness on these threads is one thing, doing it in the real world is something else. Obviously, it is not a challenge for you.

    “Explaining how something as complex as consciousness can emerge from a grey, jelly-like lump of tissue in the head is arguably the greatest scientific challenge of our time” said Dr. Philip Goff, professor of philosophy at Durham University.

     

    #329387
    @sree
    Participant

    @timb

    A child might ask “why”, and being given an answer to which they ask why of that, and so on until there is no other explanation left except “That’s what happens. The neurons fire in such a way that you see beautiful colors.” That is something that our brain does. No HARD PROBLEM is manifested except by those who may wish it to be something else.

    I don’t wish it to be something else. Darwin wished it to be something else instead of accepting things as they are in all their natural glory. If you had accepted the beautiful colors as they are and not explain that the brain did it, there wouldn’t be a Hard Problem at all. Little children, before their minds get messed up by adults, never ask why about things that are natural and sane.

    #329394
    @sree
    Participant

    There will need to be a New Approach when Science finally comes to grips with Consciousness.

    You have no idea how refreshing your statement is to me. New Approach. This require great humility: to give up all knowledge and preconceived ideas about reality in order to probe the unknown. Such a mind, that is absolutely innocent and untainted, may be able to embark on a New Approach to plumb the mystery of life.

    For now Science is sadly just sweeping Consciousness under the rug.

    Science is driven by consciousness (a bewildering phenomenon). It can only grapple with the relationship between cause and effect to acquire practical knowledge for living in this strange world. It cannot fathom the nature of this world of which Redness is a characteristic.

    A Speculation is merely a Premise put forward that will either be proved or disproved by Experiments or the test of time. I think that Speculation has been the basis for a lot of good Science. Edison Speculated that he would be able to find the right filament material to make the light bulb a practical product. His lab tested over 6000 different materials before he found the best filament.

    Yes, while the Europeans (including the Brits) prefer the theoretical approach, we yanks – impatient and daredevils, by nature – rely more on modeling. We prefer to build and test ideas before the science is completely pinned down out on paper. We are more aggressive and, consequently, more productive in and quicker at bringing to market new inventions and technologies.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Sree.
    #329992
    @write4u
    Participant

    steveklinko said; Thank You. Nice diagrams, but I have been studying these things for 20+ years. The role Microtubules play in Consciousness is highly speculative at best. Fact is nobody knows what is going on with Consciousness at this point in time. Huge Hard Problem and Explanatory Gap exists in the Scientific understanding of Consciousness.

    But where it concerns light, you have solved that “hard problem” all by yourself.  The perception of light is just different from all other sensory stimuli and much easier to understand.

    After all “Light glows in the dark of the skull” !   Well, ain’t that “precious” …..

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Write4U.
    #329993
    @write4u
    Participant

    deleted for duplication

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Write4U.
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