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Living an Authentic Life


Forums Forums General Discussion Living an Authentic Life

This topic contains 29 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Xain 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
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  • #304513

    Xain
    Participant

    Xain, you keep going back to these Buddhist sites as if deep down inside you truly feel that they have something of value to teach you.  But then you seem to rush to judgement about what they’re trying to tell you.  Take it slowly.  Really read what the author is saying.  Sit still for a moment and really think about the words.  What he’s saying is that, especially in the modern world we are easily distracted by things, by our devices and gadgets, by the news of what’s happening in the world, by our friends, by our jobs, by our own fantasies of what kind of life we SHOULD be having, and in consequence our minds are so busy that we don’t take time to just BE.  How often do people just sit still and experience what’s going on?  That is what he means by a genuine life.

    That’s actually not it. What he is saying is that much of what we think is life is just us trying to satisfy some kind of negative emotion. That life is really this non conceptual silence. It’s not what you think. That we have to let go our desires, and wants, and thoughts, and to me that just sounds like being a rock. He’s saying that our pursuits are motivated by sating negative emotions. Your interpretation is mistaken.

     

    I don’t follow this because I believe it has value (which by the way they argue is imaginary) I follow it because it is supposedly the correct view and what to do.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Xain.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Xain.
    #304517

    Xain
    Participant

    It’s pretty much saying that the life I live now sucks and that the only real life is what they offer. This was from the same magazine in which one article said that value was just an imaginary metric that doesn’t exist and that nothing was “worth it”.

    #304520

    Lausten
    Keymaster

    one article said that value was just an imaginary metric that doesn’t exist and that nothing was “worth it”.

    I don’t think it says that, but I can see how you might think it does. But arguing with you is pretty pointless, so instead, here’s a different point of view that might shake you out of your current position. Dr. Richard Carrier has been arguing with a theologian on the existence of God. His arguments apply to any kind of philosophy that attempts to claim there is some way of life that can replace what we actually experience. I’m not sure if you can get this without reading through the whole thing, but Carrier’s point boils down to; reality shaped us, so understanding what’s real and true is the best path to happiness. Unless reality is designed to makes us unhappy, that has to be true. And unhappiness would less likely lead to survival, so if that were the case, we wouldn’t be here talking about it. The difficulties we experience are due to the impression of the process of evolution. There’s no way around that and attempts to shortcut it won’t end well. Here’s a good summary:

    What humans more and more discover is that there could never have been anything worth seeking but a desirable life. And moral values and duties are what we must embody to maximize our opportunity for that. But evolution, being unintelligent and indifferent, did a better-than-nothing but still poor job of developing for us reliable organs of reason and moral perception. Which actually proves there is no God; for He’d be morally obligated to install in us reliable engines of reason and moral perception, while atheism successfully predicts evolution wouldn’t, requiring us to fix it.

    Finally, you can’t just rewrite a social and cognitive system, much less on any arbitrary desire you may have. So it’s not the case that you can just “choose” to operate as if a different system exists. Try, and the system that does exist will crush or frustrate you. This is not only true of the social system (“thieves and gang members, serial killers, pedophiles and sadists” and “Nazis” statistically end up nowhere near optimal life-satisfaction, but typically end up crushed or miserable) but also of the cognitive system (such persons are psychologically always dissatisfied, with themselves and the world; often even wallowing in loathing and misery).

    That’s from the section on the moral argument, starting here. https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/15591 There is an index, so you can pick sections. He also links to other essays of his, so you can dig deeper on his ideas. Here’s one on a moral god hypothesis, which applies to any philosophy that claims our evolved notions of value are imaginary. Showing how it doesn’t match what we experience

    The Carrier-Marshall Debate: My First Reply

    #304608

    Xain
    Participant

    Well apparently we are already living a lie:

    Reality Isn’t What You Think

     

    Do Dishes, Rake Leaves: The Wisdom of the Ancient Homemakers

     

    The second is is the one about meaning I was talking about. The first was part about living a genuine life and not the projection we put on the world.

    #304614

    Lausten
    Keymaster

    The first one says almost nothing. I could replace “Buddhist tradition” with just about any deity or philosophy that also claims to offer everything while actually offering nothing, and this article would fit in any of their websites. It’s empty of any practice, anything tangible. It says, “do my thing and get the ultimate”. It doesn’t even bother to describe one attribute of ultimate.

    The second one is exactly what I said, via Richard Carrier.

    “When we cultivate nondistracted awareness as a formal practice, we call it meditation. When we cultivate it in our home life, we call it the laundry, the kitchen, or the yard—all the places and the ways to live mindfully by attending without distraction to whatever appears before us.”

    Funny that both claim to be based on what the Buddha said. Like I said, people get their meaning from some book, then claim that book is the only answer. That’s how you know they haven’t found the answer yet.

    #304621

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Xian.

    Use of the word “apparently” before something means you believe it. You use that word in almost every post, regardless of how loony or incomprehensible the material you’re linking to is.

    Don’t use the word “apparently” in your posts unless you believe the material. And if you do believe everything you read, please don’t post at all.

    #304626

    TimB
    Participant

    I just ate a Burger King Impossible Burger.  Not the most scrumptious burger ever, but not bad, considering it has zero beef.  Now the question I should have asked, before I ate it:  If it wasn’t beef, what the heck was it?  And, am I better off having eaten whatever it was than if I had eaten a regular Whopper?

    These are questions that Buddhists don’t seem to ponder all that much.

    #304654

    Xain
    Participant

    The first one says almost nothing. I could replace “Buddhist tradition” with just about any deity or philosophy that also claims to offer everything while actually offering nothing, and this article would fit in any of their websites. It’s empty of any practice, anything tangible. It says, “do my thing and get the ultimate”. It doesn’t even bother to describe one attribute of ultimate.

    The first one is talking about how reality is not what we think it is. That things like letters, cities, countries, even the idea of home don’t exist in reality but just in our own minds. They are fabrications and constructs that we ourselves superimpose on reality.

    #304662

    Xain
    Participant

    I also think there was a part where he implied that the nature of the body is emptiness because it is just a collection of parts, which are also a collection of parts, etc etc.

    #304663

    3point14rat
    Participant

    Is the consistency a problem? I heard that they have a hard time matching the mouth feel.

    I think I’ll see who sells them in Canada and try one.

    #304665

    Write4U
    Participant

    Not really living a lie, but more of a controlled hallucination.

    This excellent presentation by Anil Seth sheds light on some of the mysterious workings of the brain.

     

     

    #304666

    Lausten
    Keymaster

    The first one is talking about how reality is not what we think it is.

    Yes, he says this

    This is what is called apparent reality. It is not the way things really are; it is only the way they appear to us. It is like the delusion that takes objects in dreams to be real when we don’t realize we are dreaming.

    Buddhas and bodhisattvas who have overcome ignorance and delusion see ultimate reality.

    But, what are his examples of this reality that you are missing? They are: not taking into account the curvature of the earth when you conceive of “up”. Having a different experience of a person, so you think they are nice and someone else thinks they are mean. He draws you in with that, because you know it’s true. It’s what I said about trying to get to know your actual world. But then he tries to extend it into something not real, using some made up words.

    He doesn’t really explain emptiness and he spends a lot of time telling you that your emotions are “confused” or otherwise wrong. He has no right to do that and he’s doing the opposite of this teaching when doing it. He says we don’t really know what’s real then he claims to know what’s going in inside your head. When he says this:

    “There are three ways to cultivate prajna: listening to the teachings, contemplating their meaning, and meditating. These three form a natural sequence.”

    In other words, read the scripture, pray, and if you don’t get it, start over. That’s what all guru hacks say because they don’t get it. He says things like, “The genuine ultimate reality is beyond the intellect. It is inconceivable and inexpressible.” Well then, it’s beyond this guy’s intellect and he can’t explain it. So not much point in believing he has anything else to say.

     

    #304691

    Xain
    Participant

    But reading it all again it sounds very convincing, because the things that we take to be real are just our own fabrications. That if the world was really as solid as we thought then the Buddha would be wrong. Things like cities and countries are only in our imagination and not in reality. That objects don’t exist in reality just our conceptions of objects. That there are no grandparents or grandchildren just forms.

    I’m not entirely convinced by the ultimate reality but he makes it sound like there is such a state free from all our conceptions of the world.

    #304758

    Lausten
    Keymaster

    Yeah, so Subway, yes Subway, is getting into meatless meat. A meatless meatball sub. McDonald’s too. Shoulda bought that stock.

    But it is authentic? If a nut has nutmeat, then what is “meat”? Is a “burger” meat? It’s really the name of the sandwich that traditionally contains a ground beef patty, so if it can be called a “hamburger” but contains to ham, what’s wrong with calling a sandwich made with a meaty patty of vegetables a “burger”. It’s the experience of it to our senses that matters, right?

    #304774

    Xain
    Participant

    The experience to the senses is one thing like he said, but there is sensory experience and what he calls conceptual. That sensory experience has no concepts to it just data. That in reality there is just sensation but no concepts of mountains, cars, trees, bees, etc.

     

    Its like a phrase they say about “enlightenment” that before it there are mountains and rivers, at it there are no mountains and rivers and that after it there are mountains and rivers again.

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