November 15, 2019 at 8:37 pm #313284TimBParticipant
TimB: Men of another era created the Judeo/Christian God and that God’s morality.
Men can also come up with moral standards without necessarily inventing a supreme being to do so.
Religiosity is thus not needed for us to have a humanistic morality. In fact, it could be a hindrance.
Sherlock: The fact is that what we call “morality” is nothing more than modes of behavior that have arisen through natural selection. All modes arose through natural selection including the modes you like to call “good” and the modes you like to call “evil” they are the result of natural selection and natural laws.
Isn’t that what you must agree to if you’re an atheist?
TimB: Sherlock, you are fundamentally incorrect in some ways. You attribute morality to natural selection which is ultimately a truism, since everything about organisms is attributable to natural selection on the primary level. However, some things we learn AFTER we are imbued with life. Culture is predominately one of those. Morality is also predominantly a factor of learning, tho I don’t think completely so.
At birth (and/or conception) we don’t hold the belief systems that we will learn and adopt later in our lives. Depending on our experiences, that might be very different (i.e., if there were simultaneous clones of me at conception, and all were born successfully, but each was raised in quite different environments then at a later point in our lives, we would have different moral values from each other.) And this occurred according to natural laws, since everything occurs due to natural laws. (Just don’t leave out an entire set of natural laws like those that involve learning.)
.November 18, 2019 at 10:16 pm #313591TimBParticipant
I suppose you are getting at the determined nature of the universe. Whatever we do, occurs by virtue of natural laws. Yes.
Our values/morals are determined according to natural laws. If we act in discordance with our values/morals, we are guilty. (In compatibilist free will, one is not guilty if they act in accordance with their belief systems. Also if they are forced to act in discordance with their value system, they would not be guilty.)
That is one level of guilt v. innocence. Another is the legal/& social system in which we live. If we break a law/more, even if doing so was consistent with our own values/morals/beliefs – we are considered by society (if it is proven) to be guilty.
We humans create laws, morals, values, mores, ethical considerations, guidelines, etc. We created the G/gods and religions that developed their particular rules, commandments, morals, etc. All of that morality stuff came from the mind of humans. ALL OF IT.
Did Mark Twain say something like, “Humans are the only creature that knows right and wrong, and chooses to do wrong anyway.”?
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