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My short video project: "Without a Doubt"


Forums Forums General Discussion My short video project: "Without a Doubt"

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 171 total)
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  • #310413
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    Ever a glutton for punishment, I asked this question on Quora a few months ago:

    The result was pretty frustrating. There’s actually intelligent discussion and debate about religion on Quora, and I’d hoped some of it might occur here… but no.

    When skeptics ask, “Which God?” to Pascal’s Wager, Christians mean “The Christian God,” of course. But some doctrinal walls within Christianity are just as high as the walls between Christians and other religions. The different branches and denominations have major, mutually-exclusive differences on Original Sin, the creeds, the Trinity, atonement, justification, baptism, the sacraments, the Eucharist, the end times, tongues, etc. etc.

    Of course, they claim that you just need to have faith in Jesus; doctrinal differences aren’t really a thing, they say. But spend 5 minutes in a Christian online forum and you’ll find them quoting scripture to each other to prove themselves right and others wrong. It’s supreme cognitive dissonance.

    These days, most Catholics, Orthodox and mainstream Protestants accept other Christians as Christians…but Conservative Protestant denominations don’t return the favor.

    #310414
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    My favorite joke ever:

    Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!”

    He said, “Nobody loves me.”

    I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

    He said, “Yes.”

    I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”

    He said, “A Christian.”

    I said, “Me, too!  What franchise?”

    He said, “Protestant.”

    I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”

    He said, “Northern Baptist.”

    I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

    He said,  “Northern Conservative Baptist.”

    I said, “Me, too!  Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?”

    He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.”

    I said, “Me, too!” Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Regions Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”

    He said “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Council of 1912.”

    I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

    — Emo Phillips

    #310509
    Xain
    Participant

    I just wonder at life some times and think how matter can yield such a mystery.

    #310625
    Xain
    Participant

    Plus in regards to Buddhism behind different than other religions is still the science.

     

    Like me about the self just being a collection of parts and not a unified and independently existing entity with an essence.

    #310627
    TimB
    Participant

    Idk what you mean by “unified” in the above sentence. Also with “independently existing”, you mean independently of what?

    #310632
    Lausten
    Keymaster

    Plus in regards to Buddhism behind different than other religions is still the science. – Xian

    This is a science inquiry forum, so if you are going to say there is science, you should show the science. Plus, it would be good for you to match up what you are thinking is true with what you can verify as actually true.

    Also – did you mean to put this comment on this thread? It seems out of place?

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Lausten.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Lausten.
    #310645
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @Lausten @snowcity

    Also – did you mean to put this comment on this thread? It seems out of place?

    I wondered the same thing.

    This is a science inquiry forum, so if you are going to say there is science, you should show the science. Plus, it would be good for you to match up what you are thinking is true with what you can verify as actually true.

    Yes. Xain, I’m not sure whether you realize that Buddhism isn’t unique in “having science behind it.” All religions, systems of meditation, etc., have been studied, in terms of effects on the brain (and that is the only kind of “science” that would apply here) … I am getting ready to post on that separately right now.

    If you mean Buddhism has been proven “scientifically true” in terms of physics or whatever, I’ll disagree: no religion or philosophy can be “proven” this way, and if it had, civilization would have stopped in its tracks to pay attention. Any attempt to match up ancient teachings, traditions and texts with modern study about the universe and reality requires modern interpretations that didn’t exist at the time.

     

     

    #310707
    Xain
    Participant

    The “inevitable” demise is the illusion itself. There limitation of having only those “options” is the illusion – the notion of “utility” is what is samsara/maya. When the man realizes that he is neither the doer of action, nor the enjoyer of the strawberry, has no volition nor efficacy and that he is the tiger himself as well as the strawberry as well as the man – then he has metaphorically climbed up and killed the tiger. You are right in the sense that it is not an “option” – killing the tiger is the reality, the true reality, beyond the “options.” It is scary because it is not meant for the faint hearted, However, on a tangible non spiritual level you are correct, however if after reading this you still believe that you exist as an individual conscious being in between birth and death and have to get “the most you can” out of “life” then I have not done a good job with this, and have failed you. Truth is you don’t need the strawberry, never did – and yes you can “win” against the tiger. But don’t take my word for it, try it yourself.

    The above is is to show that Buddhism has a bit lore philosophical and logical rigor behind it than others.

    Why do I have no friends?

    Same with the above, it’s a difference in how reality based their works are.

    And as for science:

     

    Meditation, the brain researcher Francisco Varela told me before he died in 2001, confirms the Buddhist doctrine of anatta, which holds that the self is an illusion. Varela contended that anatta has also been corroborated by cognitive science, which has discovered that our perception of our minds as discrete, unified entities is an illusion foisted upon us by our clever brains.

    #310708
    Xain
    Participant

    Further evidence of the science behind the no self and sexuality: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-and-the-illusion-of-p_b_334491/amp

    and another regarding gender as an illusion: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/12902/male-female-is-gender-an-illusion

     

    The short answer though is that Buddhism is indeed different from the rest and you can’t just lump it in with them.

    #310709
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @snowcity

    The above is is to show that Buddhism has a bit lore philosophical and logical rigor behind it than others

    Interesting. How did you came to this conclusion? Did you study all the major religions in depth? How did you decide the above was more true than this:

     

    Christianity Teaches the Correct Worldview

    Among all the religions and philosophies, how do we know Christianity is true? While there are many ways to address the question, let’s begin by saying that Christianity makes sense of the world around us. In other words, it presents the most correct worldview based on the world in which we live.

    There are three worldviews that lie at the foundation of all religions and philosophies: theism, naturalism, and pantheism. Theism teaches there is a personal God who created the universe. Naturalism teaches there is no divine being and that the universe is the result of time and chance. Pantheism teaches that the universe is eternal and that the divine is an impersonal force made up of all things. All three worldviews cannot be true at the same time and if one of them is true, the other two must be false.

    The evidence from our study of the universe points to theism. Unfortunately, time will allow me to go over only three lines of evidence.

    The first is the argument from first cause or the cosmological argument, which states if something exists, it must have either come from something else, come from nothing, or have always existed. What is the most reasonable conclusion of the three for the existence of the universe?…

    https://bible.org/article/how-i-know-christianity-true

     

    Or this?

    Evidence for the validity of Islam

    Praise be to Allah

    The evidence for the validity of Islam and the truthfulness of the Prophethood of the Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is abundant and can hardly be enumerated. This evidence is sufficient to convince any wise and fair-minded person who is impartially and sincerely seeking the truth. We can sum up some of this proof as follows.

    The evidence of sound human nature

    The call of Islam is in accordance with sound human nature, as is indicated by the words of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

    “So set you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) your face towards the religion of pure Islamic Monotheism Hanifa (worship none but Allah Alone) Allah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allah’s Islamic Monotheism), with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalqillah (i.e. the Religion of Allah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not”…

     

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/175339/evidence-for-the-validity-of-islam

     

    Or this?

    How Do I Know That the Book of Mormon Is True?

    I have known for a long time that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, but only in the last couple of years, while serving as a Mormon missionary, was I finally able to put into words the way that my answer came. There is a promise given by Moroni at the end of the Book of Mormon that if a person reads, ponders, and prays to know the Book of Mormon is true, the truth will be manifest to them by the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Moroni 10:3-5)

    As I read this verse I realized how I know that the Book of Mormon is true. I know that the Book of Mormon is true because when I read it my heart is changed by the Holy Ghost. I don’t simply feel that it is true. It motivates me to change and to be more Christlike. I want to be a better person. My very desires are changed. My desire to sin is removed and I am given a greater desire to serve my Father in Heaven and my fellowmen.

    I invite anyone who may read this to read the Book of Mormon along with the Bible. I can promise, just as the prophet Moroni promises, that anyone who sincerely reads and ponders the Book of Mormon and asks God in faith to know that it is true will know by the power of the Holy Ghost that it is true.

    How Do I Know That the Book of Mormon Is True?

     

    #310712
    Lausten
    Keymaster

    Varela contended that anatta has also been corroborated by cognitive science, which has discovered that our perception of our minds as discrete, unified entities is an illusion foisted upon us by our clever brains. — Xian

    Your links are not science. Pointing out that we are made of water doesn’t prove Buddhism. The Valera thing was interesting, but in the end, it’s a legitimate scientist who also liked Buddhism and found it interesting to try to connect the two. I found his Mind & Life Institute, which has been around for a long time. What scientific proof of Buddhism has come out of it? The idea of Mindfulness has gained acceptance and has some value, but that doesn’t mean that it defines life or is a path to removing all suffering or finding some other true version of reality.

    I randomly picked one video  and the cat jumped on my lap so I ended listening to a lot of it. Most of it is random connections that are unsubstantiated. And if you listen carefully, when he quotes Einstein about the “optical delusion of consciousness”, Einstein says we can’t free ourselves from this completely. The quote is on a slide at 46 min 20secs. He’s talking about being compassionate and embracing our world, not disconnecting from it.

    A finer point is made at 23min. You might want to start a little earlier, but he makes a joke as an aside. He’s talking about those who think they are enlightened, think they have risen above their base humanity, “anyone who says they have transcended the self”, is fooling themselves. He laughs, and everyone in the audience gets the joke. He says he would challenge them with, “And who is it that is claiming that?” This is an MIT scientist who has been doing this stuff all his life. He is your scientific proof. And he’s saying you can’t transcend the self. The self may be an illusion, but it’s part of who we are. We understand ourselves better by recognizing that and deepening our relationship with the world, not by trying to escape it.

    #310717
    Xain
    Participant

    The link from the huff post article seems to be proof enough about the body being an illusion, though I can’t shake that something feels off about it

    #310718
    Lausten
    Keymaster

    something feels off about it

    Your instinct is correct on this. There are people who study religion and psychology and make useful conclusions about how we evolved and how ancient writers had some insight but didn’t have the data to back it up like we do. Then there’s guys like the one in the HuffPo who just connect some random facts like how we are made of water but we call ourselves solid. They are riding on the coattails of those who are doing actual scientific work. They see a scientific paper that adds legitimacy to Buddhist thought, and they say, “hey, I do Buddhist thought, I can say, blah, blah, blah, Buddhism.” People eat it up like the junk food that it is.

    You have to do the work of critical thinking for every article. One article might have some actual science about meditation or mindfulness, but that does not add any value to all the spiritual garbage out there. Even though both might claim to be based on Buddhist teachings, they aren’t equal.

     

    #310719
    TimB
    Participant

    L, do you think cats might be secret Buddhists?

    #310722
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @snowcity

    The link from the huff post article seems to be proof enough about the body being an illusion,

    I’m still curious, Xain, about how you have decided that a small handful of articles prove Buddhism is true, when there are similar articles about every belief system, religion and philosophy. Particularly Christianity.

    Some time ago, I took the time & effort to post a long list of Christian philosophers, many of whom were foundational for how Western Society developed, and whose names we recognize. Did you even see it?

    There has likely been more written about the truth of Christianity than the truth of Buddhism.

    Did you choose Buddhism without fully exploring ALL other possibilities?

    Could you be wrong?

     

    though I can’t shake that something feels off about it

    @Lausten is right. Could this be trying to tell you something?

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