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On the question of ultimate reality: Specifically for Xain


Forums Forums General Discussion On the question of ultimate reality: Specifically for Xain

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 115 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #308628
    Xain
    Participant

    Except my problem isn’t OCD it’s what happens as a result of the OCD.

    #308635
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    Except my problem isn’t OCD it’s what happens as a result of the OCD.

    ◑▂◐

    Wow, @snowcity.

    I’m … stunned.

    Hey, I don’t know much about Buddhism, but is there anything in Karma that would let me get back the time & effort I wasted on your behalf?

     

    #308639
    TimB
    Participant

    Tee, you’re time and effort was not wasted, imo.  You tried to help Xain out, as we all have.  Also, you laid out your info about OCD. I appreciated that.

    #308648
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    I appreciate that, @timb. This also gave me an opportunity to hone my descriptions for things I’ll write later on. But it did take more time and effort than I wanted to give it just now. I did it because I actually was moved by Xain’s posts…it sounded like he was miserable.

    I knew there was only a tiny chance I’d be able to reach him. But I was in his place for several years. People kept trying to reassure me, and it didn’t help. But I saw they were trying to help, and I expressed gratitude for their efforts. I felt bad that they cared to try, and yet it wasn’t working…but I was thankful just the same.

    So I didn’t really expect Xain to be rude about it. If that’s the road he is going to take, it’s going to be a lonely one.

     

    #308650
    Player
    Blocked

    Counted  only 13  “I” s in that one T.

     

    You’re slipping

    #309356
    Xain
    Participant

    Again you guys are missing the mark here.

    #309799
    Xain
    Participant

    The problem is that I worry about it being true especially when I read stuff like this: https://www.quora.com/Is-Buddhism-true

    Even today I noticed that I was willing to root through my entire history to find the article where this line from it just buzzed in my head about “if buddhism wasn’t true then we would be right to worry” or something like that I don’t remember the rest but I knew that the ghist of it was that it said buddhism is true because the stuff that they mentioned if it wasn’t true isn’t so, but I can’t be sure and I can’t find the article or anything like that. But it just feels like I NEED to know in order to move on with my life, of course I said the same thing about every other article and line in my head.

    #309800
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @snowcity

    Why did you post that here? Are you looking for a response?

    #309827
    Xain
    Participant

    Mostly looking for assurance that such a claim is wrong, or that I don’t have to dig through everything again just to pull it up and repeat the same cycle of abuse I do to myself.

    #309836
    Lausten
    Keymaster

    There are several good, nuanced answers on the quora link. Just what I would expect.

    #309846
    Lausten
    Keymaster

    Again you guys are missing the mark here.

    That’s how you see it, but here’s what we all know, in your words:

    But it just feels like I NEED to know in order to move on with my life, of course I said the same thing about every other article and line in my head.

    That’s what you need to deal with, not some answer about Buddhism that doesn’t exist.

    #309861
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @snowcity:

    It’s wrong.

    I’m certain everyone here agrees.

    So you can move on with your life now.

    #309868
    Xain
    Participant

    I wish it was that easy.

    #309871
    Xain
    Participant

    This approach has a lot in common with science, but in scientific research, all that matters is to have a good intellectual understanding. Which of course is very important, but is that all there is to it?

    It’s the difference between knowing intellectually what suffering is and actually experiencing suffering. Or knowing intellectually that some people experience wonder when they look at the stars, or a flower, or whatever it is, and actually experiencing that wonder, and letting it really hit you. It’s the same also with philosophy, academic philosophy is a bit like Buddhism in some ways but without this idea that it makes any difference to see the truths directly.

    So for instance, to really understand that things change, let it soak into your very being, then there are many understandings come from that. Actually New Year is a great time to think about impermanence, because it is all about the start of a new year, fresh starts. Every moment can be a fresh start. Just intellectually understanding that things change is not like that.

    Much of the Buddhist path consists of taking truths that we can all see quite easily, such as those ones, and then really and truly internalizing them. Wisdom comes from that. Then finally – according to the teachings anyway – they say that there are truths that you can see directly in the same way that are impossible to understand intellectually, your intellectual understanding is such a pale shadow of them, it’s like the finger pointing at the Moon.

    Science is very open to change. Even a single experiment (e.g. a single observation of changed positions of stars when close to the Sun) can overturn a theory that has been held for centuries. That’s something it has in common with Buddhism. So science also has this connection with truth and you can let it soak in and learn a lot in that way through the truths of science just as for Buddhism. Some scientists like Richard Feynmann make science an open path of discovery and truth, that they engage in with all their being rather than just intellectually, and when they do that, it’s not unlike the Buddhist path.

    So, it’s more that it’s so often not treated as an important thing to understand the truths of science in that way. There are lots of connections and parallels and similarities there. It’s more to do with how science is used and taught.

    The main thing about the Buddhist path is that all the way through, it is based on things you can see directly for yourself. You don’t need to put your ideas on what suffering is through a scientific peer review to understand it. You know yourself what it is, an understanding that no amount of explanations in scientific papers could give you.

    It is in this sense that the Buddhist path is based on truths that you can see for yourself. Others also see these truths directly. They don’t have to be Buddhists, as they are truths that are there for everyone to see, directly. And – it is possible to share that understanding. It’s not only done by intellectual arguments although sometimes intellectual discussions are used to point in that direction. It’s sometimes done through symbols, actions, just doing things, and in many ways. When a Zen Buddhist shares a koan, it’s to do with communicating truths in this way.

    Another thing that’s like this, which we can probably all connect to. Someone may show through a simple act of compassion, in seconds, some inspiration of compassion, which they could never do with even hours or weeks of lectures on compassion. Whether scientific truth can ever explain what is going on there, I don’t know. But it’s truths like that, seeing directly the truth of suffering, the truth of compassion, the truth of the changing nature of everything, the fresh start in every moment, in a way that really hits home – that’s what the Buddhist path is all about.

    It’s mostly to do with quotes like this that hold me back because they appear to explain everything so neatly and make it true. But I don’t really think Buddhism is a science. If it were then it would include the people who got worse after the practice or note those it didn’t impact, rather instead I tend to see it blame the person and not the method. Also what I can conclude from Buddhist practice is that doing it yields a certain result but not that said result is the truth or what is going on. We know that the experiences from meditation are just alterations in the brain, similar to drug effects and we don’t claim those to be insights (well some do).

    So even if the guy says Buddhism is like a science, I don’t think so. It’s more like they lead you to a conclusion, which isn’t science.

    #309896
    Tee Bryan Peneguy
    Participant

    @snowcity

    What would be the consequences if you were wrong?

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 115 total)
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