March 4, 2020 at 6:50 pm #323638
Gravity is the missing link between QM and GR. Matter Waves do not have gravity, do not age, and are not physical. Spacetime(gravity/age/physicality/local/phase velocity) is assigned via decoherence.
The quantum/classical boundary is the mass of 0.3 micrometers because gravity can’t be automatically assigned below that (objects above this line are automatically decohered) and because that is the width it takes light to travel in one femtosecond. 0.3 micrometers isn’t a unit of mass, but it is the width an object would be that has the right amount of mass.
Duality at the same instance is not a thing. A particle/wave will be one or the other for its path from A to B. What matters is if a particle will decohere in its flight. A dead stop isn’t decoherence, that is wave collapse. Wave collapse does not influence what a particle will be in its flight. It’s possible for a wave to make it from point A to B without being measured before the final screen. That’s why it shows fringes. You don’t get quantum weirdness (Superposition (not talking about superposition of states), Entanglement, Tunneling) events when it’s a physical particle. They don’t experience weirdness after decoherence. Only cohered waves are allowed weirdness events.
Entangled waves become physical particles at the same moment with decoherence. If they are to be physical in flight, they will be so from the beginning, no midair swaps. A measurement far after the double slit experiment shows this. Future observed matter-waves decohere before they start moving because their momentum direction triggers decoherence. (Decay of coherence)
The quantum field doesn’t use the full dimension of time (or gravity) from spacetime. It doesn’t have a forward time limit for being influenced by physical states (spacetime). This is the core of what measurement/observation is.
You don’t use a wave function for a physical particle:
A particle gets reflected by a potential well if I can describe the particle mathematically without the wave function. Duality has been assumed during physical particle flights because they can take the path of diffraction ..but that path is guided/influenced by the quantum field ..not that the particle itself is a wave.
This is the gateway to the Unified Theory. Physical particles go with GR, Unobserved Quantum Waves go with the Quantum Field. Spacetime is separate from the Quantum Field.
The Quantum Field and Spacetime are two separate realms. The Schrödinger equation is assuming the coordinates are in spacetime. The quantum field has all the properties needed to propagate a wave without spacetime. Space isn’t expanding in cosmic voids beyond the Local Group, the quantum field is. Spacetime doesn’t stretch/expand ..it only bends. Spacetime is everywhere, but it is not enacted everywhere. Decohered mass enacts it. We know it is not enacted everywhere because unobserved quantum waves can complete their journeys without being observed(fringes). It seems when space doesn’t have mass in a region ..spacetimes’ influence diminishes. Spacetime isn’t bent in voids.
Nothing is physical without spacetime.March 5, 2020 at 6:12 pm #323694
Uncertainty is a quantum field property. It is built into a scattering matrix to solve a physical particles diffraction path. So uncertainty can influence an observed particles trajectory, but it can’t help it tunnel because the particle is not a wave. https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Dirac+interaction+pictureMarch 6, 2020 at 10:34 am #323707
I won’t pretend I understand how you got there, but I do agree with your conclusion.
“Nothing is physical without spacetime.”
Whatever that’s worth.March 7, 2020 at 6:21 am #323758@ibelieveinlogicParticipant
Nothing is physical without spacetime.
Since space is not a thing and time is not a thing, it must be that a thing with space time is physical.
So: no thing – no thing/no thing =/= physical
or: thing + no thing/no thing = physical.March 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm #323791
CC-v.3 said; Nothing is physical without spacetime.
@ibil said; Since space is not a thing and time is not a thing, it must be that a thing with space time is physical.
So: no thing – no thing/no thing =/= physical
or: thing + no thing/no thing = physical.
Space is a thing, it is not void, it has shape and size and it has properties (energy) and it is “permittive” of change.. Therefore space is a thing. More specifically, space is a mathematical construct of several mathematical properties and energetic potentials. The interaction of mathematical functions and energetic potentials resulted in the evolution of spacetime and everything within it, as we know it.
Time is not a thing. Time is a symbolic term for discrete measurements of duration. Time (duration) emerges along with existence and change of space and things within the permittive space. The phenomenon of emergence of duration as a result of change makes time irreversibly uni-directional. You cannot undo the direction of temporal duration, regardless of the 3D directions of spatial change.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Write4U.
March 9, 2020 at 6:04 am #323826@ibelieveinlogicParticipant
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Write4U.
Space is a thing, it is not void, it has shape and size and it has properties (energy)
There is actually no thing such as what we call “energy”; energy is just our description of the motion of objects. The only way to accept that space is a thing is to accept that space is a medium, a medium composed of objects. Thus space = aether.
space is a mathematical construct
This is numerology. Mathematical constructs cannot be physical or bring about physicality.
Scientific theories are sometimes labeled “numerology” if their primary inspiration appears to be a set of patterns rather than scientific observations.
The best known example of “numerology” in science involves the coincidental resemblance of certain large numbers that intrigued such eminent men as mathematical physicist Paul Dirac, mathematician Hermann Weyl and astronomer Arthur Stanley Eddington.
Large number co-incidences continue to fascinate many mathematical physicists. For instance, James G. Gilson has constructed a “Quantum Theory of Gravity” based loosely on Dirac’s large number hypothesis.
Wolfgang Pauli was also fascinated by the appearance of certain numbers, including 137, in physics.March 9, 2020 at 8:26 pm #323856
What type of spin does a decohered wave have? Has anyone ever measured a particle in a way that allows it to continue moving on its path and then tested its spin at the end? Is it spin 0? I think wave collapse is what triggers other types of spin. Physical particles might not have a wave collapse event.March 10, 2020 at 5:13 pm #323893
Lordie lordie, the things that occupy minds.
Know something that’s increasingly occupying my mind’s attention and adding more texture to my mindscape. Stone tools.
I found a rock, a nice red jasper, down by the river a couple years ago,
it fit into my hand so beautifully, naturally, magnetically – while enticing me to try slicing stuff with it.
First I though it was a wonderful example how nature probably taught people.
But with time, lots of time and the help of a couple friends I came to realize it was an actual manmade tooled hand-blade.
A few months ago I found another. Every hear of having a “search pattern” in mind, it’s a thing I learned from some archeologists way back. The better you know your bones the better you find them because your subconscious is developing a search pattern that catches stuff ‘you’ don’t.
It seems that I’ve finally formed my search pattern for stone tools, because last week found another, yesterday a few within a few yards of one another at a perfect spot of practicing. Of course it helps to be in the right spot too.
Back to these interesting rocks that sure look like hand tools, there are too many now, I was seeing interesting fractured rocks all over like never before,
now some I can recognize for sure must simply be natural fractures, then there are those that are in between.
Then the weird shit, gotta be nature, I tell myself, but then it keeps fitting right back into my fingers so well, and there’s that cutting edge opposite my forefinger, so hmmmm.
Been playing with the idea a long time but since yesterday that visit to the local college has gotta happen for real.
Now there’s some fun head games,
what am I looking at, what am I imagining, and of course musing on the persons sitting up there not that long ago, hanging out and practicing their stone napping.
Xain stuff like that makes our day to days fun and worth living 😉
pictures to follow at some point.March 10, 2020 at 5:36 pm #323896
For energy eigenstates we define <n|m>=kroneker-delta(n,m).
For some n, <n|n>=0 for n=0.
I think we are going to discover n also implies it equals spin 0
or if an energy eigenstate = 0 then so does its spin
The ground state electron will NOT have a spin half ..decohered waves all have spin 0 from start to end.
This means Physicality is a new branch of QM.
I think wave collapse is what triggers other types of spin. Physical particles might not have a wave collapse event.
There is something very fitting about the higgs being a spin 0
Have we tested an unobserved matter wave without a vacuum? No light but let there be air in it. I don’t think decoherence is very fragile to other free particles that are not light. It explains how tunneling can happen in our bodies.March 10, 2020 at 9:58 pm #323897
Good word that one.March 11, 2020 at 8:02 am #323909
W4U said; Space is a thing, it is not void, it has shape and size and it has properties (energy)
ibil said; There is actually no thing such as what we call “energy”; energy is just our description of the motion of objects. The only way to accept that space is a thing is to accept that space is a medium, a medium composed of objects. Thus space = aether.
Yes, space is a geometric permittive medium and has energetic (dynamical) potential. This dynamical potential is described in Renate Loll et al hypothesis of Causal Dynamical Triangulation. (CDT)
Causal dynamical triangulation (abbreviated as CDT) theorized by Renate Loll, Jan Ambjørn and Jerzy Jurkiewicz, and popularized by Fotini Markopoulou and Lee Smolin, is an approach to quantum gravity that like loop quantum gravity is background independent.
This means that it does not assume any pre-existing arena (dimensional space), but rather attempts to show how the spacetime fabric itself evolves.
W4U said; space is a mathematical construct
ibil said; This is numerology. Mathematical constructs cannot be physical or bring about physicality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology: Scientific theories are sometimes labeled “numerology” if their primary inspiration appears to be a set of patterns rather than scientific observations. The best known example of “numerology” in science involves the coincidental resemblance of certain large numbers that intrigued such eminent men as mathematical physicist Paul Dirac, mathematician Hermann Weyl and astronomer Arthur Stanley Eddington. Large number co-incidences continue to fascinate many mathematical physicists. For instance, James G. Gilson has constructed a “Quantum Theory of Gravity” based loosely on Dirac’s large number hypothesis. Wolfgang Pauli was also fascinated by the appearance of certain numbers, including 137, in physics.
No, you are confusing human “symbolic numbers” with “natural relative values and mathematical functions” .
You may want to check out the Fibonacci Sequence and see that this evolved natural self-organizing mathematical pattern is indeed causal to a host of natural phenomena.
This is an excellent video asking the question, do take the time to check this out.March 11, 2020 at 11:42 am #323922
A better version, without the hickups.March 11, 2020 at 11:49 am #323925
Hello W4U, I feel I gotta justify my trolling this thread since you’re participating in good-faith, and I clearly am not.
What’s my problem, guess it’s the pompousness of that title that got under my skin: Physicality.
Yet, it turns out to be all about a mind game, trying to make himself smarter than many geniuses who have already plowed this ground.
But beyond that it’s the conceit “Physicality” when all the discussion is about our human conception of the math playing upon our individual and collective Mindscape and what we can make it do for us (read, mathematicians, experts).
Physicality to me is this living planet(*) that we depend on and that we are thoughtlessly destroying – something* I’m feeling more militantly insistent on all the time – but most everyone rather play within their mindscapes. Avoidance, which I can understand to a certain extent, lordie knows we need to play various ‘games’ of denial and avoidance to get through the day to days of life’s mounting difficulties.
But to stay there and be oblivious to the physicality of the Physical Reality that surrounds us and sustains us, that just pisses me off more and more, and sometimes in unguarded moments I just gotta play the jerk – and call bullshit, where I just as well could tippy toe away, as I do plenty often.
Guess that’s what comes from being an ardent Earth CentristMarch 11, 2020 at 12:00 pm #323926
Oh I forgot, I did just come home from an hour of enraptured rock hunting during one of those eureka moments of discovery and studying fractures to a detail I never had before. Considering I’ve already spent decades being in love with rocks and closely looking at them and the stories they can tell those who know how to read them, that’s saying something. (enthusiast, never actual student)
Xain talks about lack of meaning in anything – but if it can stir your soul to the point that your entire body and being tingles, while your mindscape creates connects and reinforces others, painting an ever richer picture of our existence – how can it not matter or be meaningless?
Perfect example of the dam builder v kayaker dilemma – is the now as important as the forever? Does it matter. Of course not in the greater scheme of things, but in the moment, of course it matters. That’s good enough for me. 😉March 12, 2020 at 9:11 am #323978
If you love rocks and minerology, I can recommend Robert Hazen, an esteemed minerologist and very easy to read or listen to. This is one of my favorite videos, which has opened so many doors to understanding the abiogenesis of life.
Did you know that thhe earth has performed some, hold…..2 trillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion natural chemical experiments in it’s lifetime and ongoing at an exponential rate. The earth doesn’t need a laboratory, it is a chemical laboratory!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.