Welcome


Thank you for visiting our new forum! To start posting again please follow the link below to create a new password. First time forum users please follow the link to register. CFI thanks you for continuing the discussion on evidence-based thinking and humanist values.

Please Help Me Continue to Examine Why I Believe Jesus Rose Bodily from the Dead


Forums Forums Religion and Secularism Please Help Me Continue to Examine Why I Believe Jesus Rose Bodily from the Dead

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 241 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #317625
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    It’s your opinion.

    If you said God created man from dust and I said Darwin’s theory says you are wrong, would you say that is just my opinion?

    If I said man had landed on the moon, and that you could see the lunar lander with a telescope that you could buy yourself, would say that is just my opinion?

    If I said there is snow on the ground in Duluth, MN and I can see it from my window, would you say that is just my opinion?

    #317628
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    Who is this society you speak of and how did they decide what is right? There are places where slavery is practiced now, that doesn’t make it right. There were times it was practiced, that doesn’t make it right then. Were the slaves part of this “society”. I’m sure lots of them knew it was wrong.

    We, either individually or as a group, decide what is right and wrong by getting better at deciding what is right and wrong.

    I don’t know that you are fully comprehending what I mean by subjective. It is what you are describing, but you seem to suggest that one society’s morality trumps another. Your’s is right so therefore their’s is wrong. That seems illogical to me if they are all autonomous. Perhaps you are being ideologically possessed with the subject of slavery and the real argument is based upon a political / social frustration you have with the Bible in Western culture but that, too, seems illogical to me, because that specific cultural identity itself has wrestled with the issue of slavery and most recently have determined it to be an abhorrent practice. A conclusion we both agree on. So what is our argument?

    Why would god allow slavery? I addressed that early on. He left it to us.

    #317631
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    I don’t know that you are fully comprehending what I mean by subjective.

    What you are describing is moral relativism, so I think it’s you who has the comprehension problem.

    That seems illogical to me

    Then you should be able to use logic to determine right from wrong.

    if they are all autonomous

    They have the autonomy to be wrong. Autonomy doesn’t make it right.

    Don’t care what God thinks or what the Bible says about this.

    #317636
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    If you said God created man from dust and I said Darwin’s theory says you are wrong, would you say that is just my opinion?

    We could have a discussion based upon those sorts of generalized terms but for specific discussion and especially debate I try to be more careful with the way I use words. For example, which God? What is meant by dust? And I wouldn’t say it was “just” your opinion, I would say the opinion of many, though even in that some clarification should be made regarding what exactly Darwin’s theory is. Was it “just” his opinion that life was “originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one.” Does that fit in with what his own theory is in your opinion?

    If I said man had landed on the moon, and that you could see the lunar lander with a telescope that you could buy yourself, would say that is just my opinion?

    No, but let’s not equate opinion as necessarily being right or wrong. Just because something is or isn’t your opinion doesn’t constitute fact. Fact which is often itself subjective. Most of what we know isn’t much. I would say that it’s my opinion we were created and I assume it is your opinion that we wasn’t, but neither one of us knows for sure.

    If I said there is snow on the ground in Duluth, MN and I can see it from my window, would you say that is just my opinion?

    Yes. You can’t see all of Duluth, MN from your window and aren’t allowing for the possibility that the alleged precipitation doesn’t necessarily  encompass that specific area entirely.

    You see what I did there?

    #317638
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    What you are describing is moral relativism, so I think it’s you who has the comprehension problem.

    Subjective defined: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

    I don’t feel compelled to adhere to any philosophical paradigm, but if you want to refer to my position as stated here as moral relativism I suppose that would be fair enough, but I’m suggesting specifically that morality is subjective. So, where do we get the idea that slavery is “wrong?” As opposed to, say, for example, a debt based economy or fractional reserved banking? Democracy or Freedom? I don’t see how you could possibly argue the subjective nature of morality without citing some source which has determined it and your choices seem to be God, The Bible, or the society in which you currently reside.

    Then you should be able to use logic to determine right from wrong.

    According to whom?

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by David Leon.
    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by David Leon.
    #317641
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    Fact which is often itself subjective.

    Why are you here? Not to have any productive dialog apparently.

    Yes. You can’t see all of Duluth, MN from your window and aren’t allowing for the possibility that the alleged precipitation doesn’t necessarily  encompass that specific area entirely.

    Really? Is this funny to you?

    #317644
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    Why are you here? Not to have any productive dialog apparently.

    I thought we were having a productive dialog. If that is, to you, apparently not the case then why are you participating?

    Really? Is this funny to you?

    Not at all. Is it not true?

    #317646
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    According to whom?

    Logic, according to logic. Reason, according to reason. You can’t get any more granular than that. If you try to argue that reason doesn’t exist, then you are you using reason, so it exists. My choices are not limited to ” God, The Bible, or the society in which you currently reside.” I have the knowledge and wisdom of many societies at my fingertips and I have a mind that has been trained to think. I can think outside of those parameters.

    Sure, I can’t prove I exist, or that I’m not being controlled by an evil demon, but I can logically determine that it’s extremely unlikely those are real problems. Even if they are, then all that wisdom and logic are useless, because they can’t disprove my existence or identify the evil demon, so I’m stuck with the capacity that I have, and that’s what I’m using.

    I was really hoping you’d do better than trying out tired old hard solipsism on us David. Hope you can find something more worthwhile to discuss here.

    #317648
    @lausten
    Keymaster

     Is it not true?

    It’s pedantic. I’m here to chase away discussions that are pedantic.

    #317655
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    I was really hoping you’d do better than trying out tired old hard solipsism on us David.

    Solipsism seems nonsensical to me.

    #317666
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    You’re saying nothing can be known. That’s solipsism.

    #317669
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten I most certainly never said that nothing can be known. Such a remark would have been ridiculous. How could I possibly know nothing can be known, if nothing can be known. I know many things myself.

    #317671
    @davidleon
    Participant

    @Lausten

    Logic, according to logic. Reason, according to reason.

    My question intended to establish by whom slavery was determined as “bad” or “good” not by what means might have been employed to conclude the matter. I can’t think of any group of people who haven’t thought it at one time logical or reasonable to incorporate slavery, including my own relatively young nation of residence. Logically it makes sense to force someone else to do the work but that isn’t reasonable, to me. Who decides?

    #317675
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    If you can’t answer a simple question like that, I doubt we can have a worthwhile dialog.

    #317676
    @write4u
    Participant

    “I know many things myself.”

    How do you know you know?  You can only think you know, but it is only when people agree on what they know that we can call that reality.

    Even then that knowledge can be no more than a mass hallucination. Can you prove what you think you know? Therein lies the truth.

    Remember Descartes” “brain in a vat”?

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by Write4U.
    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by Write4U.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 241 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.