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These 19 undocumented immigrants worked for Trump


Forums Forums Politics and Social Issues These 19 undocumented immigrants worked for Trump

This topic contains 20 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Lausten 1 month, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #300612

    CNN interviewed 19 undocumented immigrants who say they worked for the Trump Organization and that Donald Trump had to have known they were undocumented during their employment. CNN’s Randi Kaye reports.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3TtuMLPYLA

    Why doesn’t Trump’s lies and double standard matter to his supporters?

    #300619

    TimB
    Participant

    Why trump’s staggering amount of lies and hypocrisy don’t matter to his supporters:

    1) Some decided to support him initially because they thought he might be good for America, and subsequently their cognitive dissonance drove them further and deeper into supporting him, beyond the reach of rationality.

    2) Some support him (and this is a BIG one) because he will/has put the “conservative” ideology firmly in control of the courts for the coming generation/s.  As we see now, the SCOTUS could be on the verge of ending Roe v. Wade.  Maybe they can also take out Brown v. Board of Education.  Certainly they will solidify the undermining of women’s health centers and they will solidify “Citizen’s United”.  They are quite willing to overlook Trump’s many sins if he can achieve their “Pro Life” goals.

    3) A portion of Trump supporters (a small portion? idk) are bigots and xenophobes (some probably don’t even realize how bigoted and xenophobic they are.  But Trump is the #1 guy for them, in that no one with a more bigoted and xenophobic agenda could be elected POTUS.  He is a dream come true for them, like a pre-wheelchair George Wallace, but one that actually got elected.

    4) Some still believe the hype and scam about Trump being a great businessman and deal maker.  With the economy apparently doing well, that is enuf for them to overlook all else.

     

    Note: #2 is the main reason I voted for H Clinton in 2016 and also, imo, why any liberal who didn’t was an ignorant jackass.

    #303473

    Mike this one’s for you.

    #303495

    MikeYohe
    Participant

    No, Tim was following you. Tim and Patrick have sailed. There is no debate here. But I got to say, Tim give Trump a lot of credit for the ability to have people follow him. Which I don’t think is the case. The people are sick and tired of the Left’s BS and they want to stop all the crazy stuff going on. Therefor Trump and the American people are on the same page.

    #303497

    Lausten
    Participant

    Crazy stuff?

    The point being, supporting laws against immigration then hiring people who broke those laws is crazy.

    #303505

     The people are sick and tired of the Left’s BS and they want to stop all the crazy stuff going on.

    Unfortunately, I find the left very confusing and confused too often myself.  I think we need a new labeling method in these over-manipulated-politics by dishonest ad campaigns times we find ourselves in.

    How about the Rationalist fact-based crowd vs, the Faith shackled crowd.

    One of the big problems with the left is that they’ve been totally incapable of confronting the Faith based bullshit and brainwashing of the Christian Prosperity Doctrine believing faithful.  Which {Christian Prosperity Doctrine} incidentally is about as anti-christ as its possible to get, but hey if you got great enough propaganda, a huge megaphone and a totally ruthless self-certain attitude toward the importance of your own EGO and desires it’s easy to Brainwash people.

    Then we got the corporate oligarch, Kochs, Mercers, and particularly Murdoch (with his long range plan that seems to have worked out to a tee) and such with their propaganda media empires, focused on political advancement rather than reporting on the facts of what’s happening.

    As you are such a great example of.  I mean you prefer an obvious private incestuous click of fringe scientists and pretend scientists funded by deep corporate pockets – to a global community of informed competitive scientists working within the framework of constructive debate.

    All  your side has to show is great salesmanship –  as my recent visits into the heart of middle class modern America has been dramatizing for me – facade and profits driven salesmanship is all this country lives on anymore.  Just have to scan the TV channels to realize how f’n lost our society has become.  Or visit a mall.  Lordie lordie, how much awareness people have lost, absolutely unbelievable for someone like me who loves learning about this world I was born into and who believes we were supposed to care for this planet and each other and the future wellbeing of all.

     

    Oh I know you’ll just shrug it off, try to pretend it’s just petie’s crazy talk – but you know the story is there, the documentation of the known sordid details is solid.  It has nothing to do with my opinion – it has to do with what has actually and really unfolding.

    You’d have to start with

    Merchants of Doubt

    https://www.merchantsofdoubt.org

    The U.S. scientific community has long led the world in research on public health, environmental science, and other issues affecting the quality of life. Our scientists have produced landmark studies on the dangers of DDT, tobacco smoke, acid rain, and global warming. But at the same time, a small yet potent subset of this community leads the world in vehement denial of these dangers.

    In their new book, Merchants of Doubt, historians Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway explain how a loose–knit group of high-level scientists, with extensive political connections, ran effective campaigns to mislead the public and deny well-established scientific knowledge over four decades. In seven compelling chapters addressing tobacco, acid rain, the ozone hole, global warming, and DDT, Oreskes and Conway roll back the rug on this dark corner of the American scientific community, showing how the ideology of free market fundamentalism, aided by a too-compliant media, has skewed public understanding of some of the most pressing issues of our era.

    “A well-documented, pulls-no-punches account of how science works and how political motives can hijack the process by which scientific information is disseminated to the public.”—Kirkus Review

    It may not be up to date, but as a historical report on what has happened and how we got to this hideous hopeless state of affair we’ve created for ourselves and our society, it remains, dare I say authoritative.

    #303507
    #303514

    MikeYohe
    Participant

    Lausten & CC – Crazy stuff? The point being, supporting laws against immigration then hiring people who broke those laws is crazy.

    That what happens when you have over regulation. A couple facts that are not well understood by Americans. Illegals know more about America labor laws than Americans. For thirty years now attorneys have been educating the people of many countries by radio and TV. To them it is like the lotto. Come to America get a job and a paycheck and then go back home and the attorneys will file your workers compensation claim.

    Next, what CC does not understand. It is against the law for Trump or any other employer to ask an employee if they are illegal. You must hand them the proper paperwork. They fill it out and then you sent it to the State and Federal government. Even if they say they are illegal the paperwork is all the counts. Any employer acting beyond the paperwork can be fined and sued.

    As far as the Faith stuff. There is some political stuff going on about abortion. Other than that, I don’t see a lot of faith items in the news. The abortion is all over the place. But I think the biggest problem is not the abortion for most on the right. It is the Lefts demand that it must be paid for by the taxpayers. It just does not make a lot of sense to a lot of people to have thousands of people coming to American from around the world to have Anchor Babies and have the taxpayers pay for them. The Left are the me, me, me and me big babies. They want everything paid for. I think they pushed this subject to far and got some push back they did not like.

    Next CC gets into Climate Science. Come on now. CC is no better than the scientists. They have a lot in common. Neither one will ever make a prediction. Well not after they stopped idolizing Gore anyway. All the labels and name calling just shows its all political.

    Next, as CC travels all over the map. We have the rich. CC would be surprised if she would take the time and look for common factors. Like the more regulations and attorneys, the richer the rich got.

    Next, CC returns to Trump. Tries to lie to us by making us think she has morals and Trump does not. Until the Democrats look at Hillary’s emails and figure out if 4 Americans are dead because of them. Then they don’t deserve to have the time of day.

    Next, CC returns to religion. I have explained it several times. Our system and all systems in mankind’s history has proven to work better with good morals. Our system used the religion to help teach morals. It is that simple. From what I have seen with the Democratic Congress and the Socialists, is zero morals. America needs to stop educating the people. The people are getting really stupid the longer they spend in education institutions.

    Point being. Just because you are born here. Live here. Work here. That does not make you an American other than by birth. You might be a communist. Americanism is an idea built upon knowledge. The way people should live and treat each other. The Democrats are in no way Americans for the most part.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  MikeYohe. Reason: forgot the "e" in fined
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  MikeYohe. Reason: forgot the "e" in fined
    #303516

    Lausten
    Participant

    Mike, maybe you didn’t get my subtle point that I don’t support the current immigration laws. They do not meet our economic needs or recognize that we need the people who want to come here and work. It works for people like Trump to keep that quiet, and pay people less, who he knows won’t speak up because they don’t want to go back to making nothing in the country that people like Trump exploited and created the situation that they are now further exploiting.

    #303518

    Lausten
    Participant

    Come to America get a job and a paycheck and then go back home and the attorneys will file your workers compensation claim.

    Show me one of these claims you are talking about.

    #303519

    Lausten
    Participant
    #303523

    Next, what CC does not understand. It is against the law for Trump or any other employer to ask an employee if they are illegal.

    Maybe in your FOX bubble.

    I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

    https://www.uscis.gov/i-9

    Form I-9 is used for verifying the identity and employment authorization of individuals hired for employment in the United States. All U.S. employers must ensure proper completion of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. Both employees and employers (or authorized representatives of the employer) must complete the form. On the form, an employee must attest to his or her employment authorization. The employee must also present his or her employer with acceptable documents evidencing identity and employment authorization. The employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form. Employers must retain Form I-9 for a designated period and make it available for inspection by authorized government officers. NOTE: State agencies may use Form I-9. Also, some agricultural recruiters and referrers for a fee may be required to use Form I-9.

    Form I-9 (PDF, 683 KB)
    Form I-9 Paper Version (This version is unfillable and must be printed for completion on paper only.) (PDF, 73 KB)
    Form I-9 Supplement, Section 1 Preparer and/or Translator Certification (PDF, 816 KB) (PDF, 854 KB)
    Instructions for Form I-9 (PDF, 565 KB) (PDF, 565 KB)
    Form I-9 in Spanish (May be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY) (PDF, 416 KB)
    Form I-9 Supplement in Spanish (PDF, 246 KB)
    Instructions for Form I-9 in Spanish (PDF, 295 KB)

    Unfortunately, it’s your kind of disregard for reality that has made this “illegal migration” thing a crisis.

    Oh that and ignoring how much we, Americans and our obscene amorality during hundred+ years of interactions in South America have contributed to the conditions that are forcing these people to flee their homes.

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/banana-wars

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/where-we-got-term-banana-republic-180961813/

    https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/other/truth-behind-banana-republic

    Not to mention USA’s insatiable desire for drugs in the past half centuries and all the horrors that has created.

    But, then one would have to some humane, empathetic, instincts to appreciate such things – and sadly as the past couple years have developed it sure seems like Jesus Pimps for Cash and their Prosperity Doctrine only have their own self-certainty at heart, well that and hatred for all others.  Fear and ignorance does that to people.  So tragic,  such a wasteland it will leave behind.

     

     

    #303538

    Lausten
    Participant

    Maybe in your FOX bubble.

    Oddly enough, I saw this thing about how an employer can’t ask you if you are an illegal immigrant at McDonald’s. I was standing there waiting for my McCoffee something and there was a board for the employees. It said pretty much exactly that. But, as you pointed out, and through personal experience, I have been asked for ID.

    The truth is somewhere in the middle, which is not conspiracy land, where Mike lives. I’m sure it’s not legal for an employer to ask if you ever crossed the border illegally. They can do background checks however, which I know little about, and don’t know how much info the courts give you. If you didn’t get caught, obviously, the background check won’t have that, although it might have a gap of some kind. Also, are employers legally required to examine your ID in detail and verify it is in fact real? I doubt it. I know some kids aren’t even aware how they got here, because they were babies at the time.

    This gray area prevents an HR person being held liable for a mistake, which is good, but also opens a door for someone to look the other way. But if you are the President, and it’s reasonable to believe you had information that you had “illegals” working for you, that is no longer a gray area.

    #303584

    MikeYohe
    Participant

    Your old enough to remember when President Regan’s gardener was found to be an illegal. A week latter he was a legal worker. No one had a problem with that.

    H. W. Bush really screwed up America by letting a lot of regulations come to power. Our cheese production came close to moving to Argentina. Argentina is ¼ the size of America but has about the same amount of grass land. Our dairy industry just about moved to Argentina. It was the illegals who worked in the new industrial dairies that were opening in the Western US that saved the American Cheese and dairy industry. This story has never made the news. But I worked the industry at the time.

    The illegals we are dealing with today are not the same as a couple of decades ago. The news says they are coming for work. BS, they are coming for a lawsuit and benifits. Of all the thousands of new regulations for Americans in workforce laws. It has created a windfall for the illegals’ attorneys. And the money being sent by workers back to their countries is a major source of revenue for those countries. The system is broken for America but working really good for the other countries.

    Immigration should not be a problem. That is what we are paying the congress for. To fix these problems. The congress has scammed us and lied to us. We need to drain the swamp.

    As you know Lausten, the biggest problem I see is our lost of morals of the new generation. We need to elect the people with good morals. I have no trouble with President Trump.

    #303591

    Lausten
    Participant

    This story has never made the news. But I worked the industry at the time.

    Translation: He had a job in a factory once and some guy ranted about this. He believed that guy.

    The illegals we are dealing with today are not the same as a couple of decades ago. The news says they are coming for work. BS, they are coming for a lawsuit and benifits. Of all the thousands of new regulations for Americans in workforce laws. It has created a windfall for the illegals’ attorneys. And the money being sent by workers back to their countries is a major source of revenue for those countries. The system is broken for America but working really good for the other countries.

    Here’s the things about attorneys. They file paperwork. That paperwork is public knowledge. If what you say is true, it would be traceable and quantifiable. So, show me the data. Or just show me these regulations. Regulations are not secret. And what system? The system where people walk thousands of miles with nothing, risking death, to get menial jobs  and then send some of it back home so their children won’t starve? That system?

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