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Under Humanism because it's about our "human mindscape"


Forums Forums Humanism Under Humanism because it's about our "human mindscape"

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 46 total)
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  • #309485
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    Lausten, When you said “…I don’t like that the mind is not aware of it being a result of activity in the brain…”, I don’t understand what you mean.  What were you referencing by “it“. — TimB

    To answer that, I’d need to answer just what self-awareness is and I don’t think anyone has that answer. When I say “aware”, what do you think I’m talking about? I’m talking about the stuff that happens in the mind, thinking about what happened before now and what might happen next. That which does that thinking did not become aware of where the thinking came from just by thinking about it. It took experimentation and gathering of evidence over many years to determine it is centered in the brain. The science on that is still pretty new.

    #309486
    @timb
    Participant

    I see.  So it bothers you that we did not naturally have a meta-understanding of our thinking, perceiving, remembering, dreaming, picturing, planning, etc., etc., etc. mental behaviors?

    #309487
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    Hasn’t that been done?

    I agree with your definition, but it needs to be clarified in this thread.

     It is only through science that our mind can get a sense of being produced by the brain.

    Exactly.

    Hasn’t it been show that our brain neurons extend far beyond the mind

    Exactly again.

    What’s in the nutshell?

    Starting with “Whereas…”

    #309492

    Whereas I make a big deal about being an EARTH CENTRIST expressly because my starting point is the physical universe and I work back to the mind from that central perspective.  I believe most other do it the other way around, which I believe leads to the thinking that the universe must fit into the mind and which leads to all the obsession for absolute knowledge, which in turn creates a need for gods.

    Which leads to the endless talk for the sake of talking, not to mention a bunch of bellybutton gazing.

    #309509
    @timb
    Participant

    I guess I am not understanding exactly what you r doing when you (with the physical universe being your starting point) “work back to the mind from that central perspective”.

    And then doing the opposite of that, you assume leads ppl to obsess after absolute knowledge and thus need gods. That is some big-time assuming.

    #309513
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    For me, the universe is the right place to start because it’s the incubator for everything else. Without the billions of years of cooking up elements and forming ecosystems, there would be no mind. So you need that big picture to know what a mind is. But, since those minds didn’t come to consciousness until all of that already happened, and weren’t formed with that in their memories, the minds tried to fit what they found into themselves. Survival doesn’t require an understanding of why things are the way they are, so mechanisms and adaptations were geared to over assuming agency and to rituals that passed on practices that just worked without needing to know why. Curiosity has its place, but repeating what worked before is safer. I don’t think this an assumption, I think there is data to support it.

    #309525
    @write4u
    Participant

    Hasn’t it been show that our brain neurons extend far beyond the mind

    I’m sorry, but that sentence does not make any sense.

    Brain neurons are the “specialized” neurons of the brain. However, humans also have a complete neural network throughout the body. All neurons are connected to sensory organs and transmit sensory messages to the brain.  The body doesn’t think, it senses and transmits data to the brain. The brain processes the data and forms an internal image of the composite.

    The mind is the internal holographic representation of perceived internal and external data. Thoughts can extend beyond the confinement of the brain, but all thought is truly imaginary, a brain’s best guess of what data the senses are transmitting and fashioning an “internal picture” of the sensory input.

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Write4U.
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    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Write4U.
    #309536
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    The mind is the internal holographic representation of perceived internal and external data. Thoughts can extend beyond the confinement of the brain, but all thought is truly imaginary, a brain’s best guess of what data the senses are transmitting and fashioning an “internal picture” of the sensory input.

    That’s a good picture of how I think about what “mind” is. I didn’t catch the bad wording on the first read. I auto-corrected in it my head to say “don’t neurons extend beyond the brain”.

    #309540
    @timb
    Participant

    I am imagining what my imagining behavior actually looks like.  It is a colorful complex interconnected network of neurons firing.

    To a lay person, that networked pattern of neurons firing would probably look similar to when I was imagining something else, let’s say a duck.

    When I stop imagining the duck or the neurons firing, the picture of those things is no more, until imagined again. (Now the pictured duck never existed.  The pictured neurons firing, did exist, but probably was vastly different than as pictured.)

    Any behavior (including any mental behavior) exists at the moment that it occurs and not else when.

    #309544
    @lausten
    Keymaster

    To a lay person, that networked pattern of neurons firing would probably look similar to when I was imagining something else, let’s say a duck.

    I know this is changing rapidly, but last time I checked, we can only see general areas of the brain lighting up. We can’t map out an image by looking at neurons firing. Lay person or otherwise. Controlling a cursor with your mind is a lot different than reading people’s thoughts.

    #309550
    @timb
    Participant
    #325657
    @halster
    Participant

    I have mentioned the use of “mindscape” by @citizenschallengev3  because the frequency of use is reading like a platitude.  When I run across his use of mindscape I just think he doesn’t know what he wants to say.  I don’t want to argue. It’s merely my observation.

    #325687
    @write4u
    Participant

    IMO, what CC means with “mindscape” he means “our best guess” based on “memory” of stored sensory experiential information. It is the “mind” that is translating exterior and interior electro/chemical experiences by producing a visual mindscape of what you brain is able to produce.

    As posted elsewhere Anil Seth; “The Neuroscience of Consciousness” explains how the brain processes information and what it can do with that information.  The pattern of consciousness.

     

     

    #326417

    Hasn’t it been shown that our brain neurons extend far beyond the mind

    Referring to stuff like this – https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-brain-gut-connection

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/gut-brain-connection#section2

    I guess I am not understanding exactly what you r doing when you (with the physical universe being your starting point) “work back to the mind from that central perspective”.

    Purely evolutionary stand point.  It started with star dust in a particular of a galaxy, that created a particular kind of solar system the created a particular kind of Earth Moon partnership that created the most fantastical gem in the Universe.  We have coding in our body that’s been handed down billions of years and hundreds of millions of years, folds within folds of cumulative harmonic process, cascading down Time, everyday bringing small and big changes, that join the cascade as time marches on.

    Fractals, think fractal and responding to the environment you find yourself in, be you amoeba, bug, critter or mammal or primate or human or dolphin.

    All I am is dancing on top of that until I and my gods melt back into it.

    And then there’s dealing with my day to day to the best of my abilities.

    Does any of that make sense?

    Does that help?

    #326418

    Oh and along with the fractal thing is the mind.

    I’m not just talking about the human brain, but where our human brain came from.

    Remember our human brain is all hand-me-down components, sure parts got super boosted here and there, but there’s nothing truly unique or original about any part of it..

    I can’t help but thinking through the awareness of the many structures that Evolution invented in order to create thousands and millions of different brains to produce their particular minds, in order to interact with the environments they found themselves within, and need to survive and prosper within.

    How am I doing?

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